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...and yet, usually unbeknownst by you, you're swept by those wearing horizontal shoulder holstered guns.

Oh, most of the time they're not only loaded, but there's one in the chamber...

Conundrum?

Abraham wrote:...and yet, usually unbeknownst by you, you're swept by those wearing horizontal shoulder holstered guns.

Oh, most of the time they're not only loaded, but there's one in the chamber...

Conundrum?

Not in my mind, since a gun in a holster in not in anyone's hand where their booger scooper can get to the trigger. JMHO.

Jusme wrote:

Abraham wrote:...and yet, usually unbeknownst by you, you're swept by those wearing horizontal shoulder holstered guns.

Oh, most of the time they're not only loaded, but there's one in the chamber...

Conundrum?

Not in my mind, since a gun in a holster in not in anyone's hand where their booger scooper can get to the trigger. JMHO.

Guns do not shoot people, people shoot people. A holster that covers the trigger should be considered safe.

Jusme wrote:

Abraham wrote:...and yet, usually unbeknownst by you, you're swept by those wearing horizontal shoulder holstered guns.

Oh, most of the time they're not only loaded, but there's one in the chamber...

Conundrum?

Not in my mind, since a gun in a holster in not in anyone's hand where their booger scooper can get to the trigger. JMHO.

This attitude worries me. This misses the entire point.

This discussion (this particular topic) has absolutely nothing to do with the actual physical condition of the gun...loaded, unloaded, trigger guarded, not guarded, holstered, not holstered.

This is all about the condition of the mind, the maturity, the attitude, responsibility, the awareness and the competence of the person holding or carrying the gun.

It doesn't matter how safe the gun actually is. What matters is how the user MAKES THE GUN SAFE. This is all about attitude. The entire module on Safe gun practices and handling that we teach as per the DPS is about just that. The same holds true for gun storage. You can't build a gun safe that will store a weapon safely against the onslaught of a stupid user.

The weakest link will always be the gun user or the person responsible for the gun.

tex

I think getting within 10-15 feet of a bear may actually be more dangerous than pointing his gun although it is a close call. Bears can move really fast and can be extremely dangerous. I had a friend who was a ranger at Yellowstone. He told lots of stories about people doing really dangerous things with bison, moose and bears. They are not petting animals but it is amazing how many people think that is fine.

That said, pointing the gun as he did is totally unacceptable particularly if he doesn't realize that what he did is dangerous.

Bear nearby vs "unloaded" gun pointed at me? Statistically I'll take the bear. Unloaded weapons kill people all the time whereas a wild animal usually needs to be provoked. As to the initial question, I was Mr. Mom for 12 years and there was nothing like this (unsafe or threatening person) that immediately made me remove my kids and me from a situation faster. There is no understanding nor forgiving pointing a un/loaded gun at someone even once. My kids can recite the 4 rules of gun handling so they can make good decisions in the future when I'm not around.

stroo wrote:I think getting within 10-15 feet of a bear may actually be more dangerous than pointing his gun although it is a close call. Bears can move really fast and can be extremely dangerous. I had a friend who was a ranger at Yellowstone. He told lots of stories about people doing really dangerous things with bison, moose and bears. They are not petting animals but it is amazing how many people think that is fine.

That said, pointing the gun as he did is totally unacceptable particularly if he doesn't realize that what he did is dangerous.

It really depends on the type of bear and also any situational factors (mamma with cubs nearby, etc). If I had to make a blanket statement, I'd go with the gun that is believed to be unloaded being less dangerous than a random bear 10-15 feet away.

Of course, it is best to avoid either risk if possible.....

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

stroo wrote:I think getting within 10-15 feet of a bear may actually be more dangerous than pointing his gun although it is a close call. Bears can move really fast and can be extremely dangerous. I had a friend who was a ranger at Yellowstone. He told lots of stories about people doing really dangerous things with bison, moose and bears. They are not petting animals but it is amazing how many people think that is fine.

That said, pointing the gun as he did is totally unacceptable particularly if he doesn't realize that what he did is dangerous.

It really depends on the type of bear and also any situational factors (mamma with cubs nearby, etc). If I had to make a blanket statement, I'd go with the gun that is believed to be unloaded being less dangerous than a random bear 10-15 feet away.

Of course, it is best to avoid either risk if possible.....

I think that was sort of the point of the OP. There were several instances, of risky behavior detailed in the post, lack of wearing seat belts, improperly holding a baby, etc. I don't know if the FIL is just trying to recapture some of the thrills, he feels may be missing in his life, or if it could be a medical/psychological issue. JMHO

Jusme wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

stroo wrote:I think getting within 10-15 feet of a bear may actually be more dangerous than pointing his gun although it is a close call. Bears can move really fast and can be extremely dangerous. I had a friend who was a ranger at Yellowstone. He told lots of stories about people doing really dangerous things with bison, moose and bears. They are not petting animals but it is amazing how many people think that is fine.

That said, pointing the gun as he did is totally unacceptable particularly if he doesn't realize that what he did is dangerous.

It really depends on the type of bear and also any situational factors (mamma with cubs nearby, etc). If I had to make a blanket statement, I'd go with the gun that is believed to be unloaded being less dangerous than a random bear 10-15 feet away.

Of course, it is best to avoid either risk if possible.....

I think that was sort of the point of the OP. There were several instances, of risky behavior detailed in the post, lack of wearing seat belts, improperly holding a baby, etc. I don't know if the FIL is just trying to recapture some of the thrills, he feels may be missing in his life, or if it could be a medical/psychological issue. JMHO

Sorry. I just couldn't avoid the rathole argument of bear vs unloaded gun.

A few of the things listed I might chalk up to a generational difference. I know that my father liked to toss my little brothers us up in the air and then catch them when they were babies. I had to ask him politely to please not do that with my kids after the first time he tossed my baby. He mumbled something about "overprotective parents" but respected my wishes on the subject. I think the bit about not mandating that adults wear seatbelts is in a similar category.

But getting within spitting distance of a wild animal and being careless with guns? Yeah, no excuses there.

"But I didn't think it was loaded...."

We need not look any farther than the Punta Gorda, Fl, accidental shooting where a LEO killed a woman with a blank.

My bad.....did I say "blank"?

tex

Soccerdad1995 wrote:I agree with the other posters that it is never OK to allow the muzzle of a gun to sweep anybody. That said, it happens every single day at most every gun retailer out there. Does your FIL need to be more careful? Yes, definitely. Is he a crazed gun nut? Maybe, but not based solely on one incident. I am particularly concerned by his reported nonchalant attitude after you called him out on it. Is it possible that he was just embarrassed by his mistake? If he truly does not understand why this is an issue, then that is a HUGE problem.

Personally, I would not cut off contact over this, but I would probably tell him that all of his guns need to be locked up at all times when you and your family visit.

Well said. I would have a serious talk with him and make a judgement call based on the results of said conversation.

I think if he felt bad about the incident he would apologize to us and pledge to take a gun safety class and to never do it again.

Once again I really appreciate so many people taking the time to give their opinion and especially not one wise guy voting 'yes'.

It goes well to show that we're reliable, responsible and sensible people. I'm proud to know you all. Thank you.

parabelum wrote:Every gun should always be treated as if it was loaded. Under NO circumstance is it acceptable to point a gun at another person unless the purpose is self defense.

What he did was very very stupid, ignorant and unlawful at that (lookup deadly conduct charge in Texas).

Sec. 22.05. DEADLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he recklessly engages in conduct that places another in imminent danger of serious bodily injury.

(b) A person commits an offense if he knowingly discharges a firearm at or in the direction of:

(1) one or more individuals; or

(2) a habitation, building, or vehicle and is reckless as to whether the habitation, building, or vehicle is occupied.

(c) Recklessness and danger are presumed if the actor knowingly pointed a firearm at or in the direction of another whether or not the actor believed the firearm to be loaded.

(d) For purposes of this section, "building," "habitation," and "vehicle" have the meanings assigned those terms by Section 30.01.

(e) An offense under Subsection (a) is a Class A misdemeanor. An offense under Subsection (b) is a felony of the third degree.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

I would have left also. It sounds like this guy is an attention whore and a show off. It is this type of gun owner that makes all of us sane people look bad. That is a criminal act is it not? (as noted above) How does being in his home affect this I wonder? What a way to spend the holiday.