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KBCraig wrote:

phddan wrote:Snake was no rattler
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By Jennifer Griswold
Staff Writer

( . . . )

The Noble Police Department's Police and Procedures Manual says "firearms may be used to destroy an animal that represents a threat to public safety.�

A snake in a birdhouse in a semi-rural area does not qualify as a threat to public safety. Even if it was a rattlesnake. (Anyone ever seen a rattlesnake in a tree? Not me!) Rattlesnakes in central Oklahoma are about as rare as Sooners fans.

I have. They're called Timber Rattlers, and eastern Oklahoma is part of their range.

This story is terrible, just terrible.

Yes it is...................

Even if it was a rattlesnake. (Anyone ever seen a rattlesnake in a tree? Not me!)

It would be most unusual.

Too bad someone (police/homeowner) wasn't more familiar with the "common" snakes that inhabit central Oklahoma.

Rattlesnakes are capable of climbing (but its a very rare occurrence).

Rat snakes OTOH are excellent climbers and will not miss a chance to dine on bird eggs or their young. Many places in the South they are called "chicken" snakes.

Except under low light conditions...it would be difficult to mistake any of the rattlesnakes (indigenous to central Oklahoma) with a common Rat Snake.

Rat snakes are very docile and pose absolutely no threat to humans....(save for those people with phobias).

In any case, there are better/easier ways to dispatch a snake than shooting at it with a pistol.

MoJo wrote:

Don't quite understand what you mean. Care to elaborate?

Dan

KBCraig wrote:

phddan wrote:Snake was no rattler
Related Information

By Jennifer Griswold
Staff Writer

( . . . )

The Noble Police Department's Police and Procedures Manual says "firearms may be used to destroy an animal that represents a threat to public safety.�

A snake in a birdhouse in a semi-rural area does not qualify as a threat to public safety. Even if it was a rattlesnake. (Anyone ever seen a rattlesnake in a tree? Not me!) Rattlesnakes in central Oklahoma are about as rare as Sooners fans.

Seems as though if a rattler were to be up in a tree it would be about the safest place for them to be. Not likely they would get stepped on and get mad.

Liberty wrote:

KBCraig wrote:

phddan wrote:Snake was no rattler
Related Information

By Jennifer Griswold
Staff Writer

( . . . )

The Noble Police Department's Police and Procedures Manual says "firearms may be used to destroy an animal that represents a threat to public safety.�

A snake in a birdhouse in a semi-rural area does not qualify as a threat to public safety. Even if it was a rattlesnake. (Anyone ever seen a rattlesnake in a tree? Not me!) Rattlesnakes in central Oklahoma are about as rare as Sooners fans.

Seems as though if a rattler were to be up in a tree it would be about the safest place for them to be. Not likely they would get stepped on and get mad.

Can't argue that!

phddan wrote:

MoJo wrote:

Don't quite understand what you mean. Care to elaborate?

Better?

I do not think this is beating a dead horse nor are people talking about it too much.

We can see ourselves as the grand parent, and are reacting emotionaly and trying to express the shock and horror of the situation.

I and others have trouble seeing ourselves specifically as the Cops involved because of shooting at the snake in a tree with a handgun. Plus the emotional empathy with the Grand paw keeps us / me from placing myself in the shoes of the Officers.

But what if you are forced to engage Bad Guys and you inflict harm or death to an innocent bystander? How would you deal with it? what if you have an acidental discharge and hurt some one?

This story is so very disturbing and sad. I am personally so angry at the cops I cant deal rationally with that side of the issue yet so I just react and dont think hard on it. Just let the emotions roll out. I will not even recount tnem here as I think it would only inflame and not add to this somber and tragic discussion.

As a person dedicated to defending youself and loved ones, have you identified back ground areas around your house? How are the neighbors houses facing you in these areas. Are the sides of garages facing you or living quarters. Bricks facing you or wood siding.

I saw a video of the Marines testing various weapons on cinderblock siding, brick siding and wood siding. Conclusions of the video:
1- .223 ball will not penetrate cinder blocks or bricks with a single round. They must first chew a hole in these walls. Then shoot through these holes to get rounds to the interior of the home. (Wonder why they are breaking M-14's out of mothballs?)
2- Any round from a 7.62x39 mm or above rifle caliber will penetrate all three types of sidings and several internal wall sidings as well.
3- Dont recall if 9mm and 45ACP was tested
All rounds tested went through wood siding with no problems.
Sorry no link to the video.

After the video and this event, I took stock of my home defense battery and the positions of my neighbors housing. Put up my SKS and got out my CAR-15 for a bed side rifle. The SKS was cheaper and I wanted my expensive CAR-15 put up in the safe. But the dangers of the 7.62x39mm round to my neighbors was too great. The 64gr Winchester power points will do for my rifle defensive needs. If my Car-15 is stolen I'll just get another. I dont want to be in the position those Officers find themselves with innocent blood on my hands!

My families thoughts and prayers to little Austin's family

May God have mercy and love for all involved for I can not at this time.

a tragedy for all concerned this was caused by sheer stupidity on the part of the officer involved.
maybe its best to find out now that that person probably chose the wrong profession.
you cant afford to make dumb mistakes with guns.

"I saw a video of the Marines testing various weapons on cinderblock siding, brick siding and wood siding. Conclusions of the video:
1- .223 ball will not penetrate cinder blocks or bricks with a single round. They must first chew a hole in these walls. Then shoot through these holes to get rounds to the interior of the home. (Wonder why they are breaking M-14's out of mothballs?) "



Well i dont know what video you saw but i speak from experience and ill tell you that a 5.56 nato round will go through a cinderblock like a hot knife through butter...the rounds we use can penetrate steel. So unless the cinderblocks where made of some kind of supernatural concrete than that video is most definately wrong.

Hamourkiller wrote:I
I saw a video of the Marines testing various weapons on cinderblock siding, brick siding and wood siding. Conclusions of the video:
1- .223 ball will not penetrate cinder blocks or bricks with a single round. They must first chew a hole in these walls. Then shoot through these holes to get rounds to the interior of the home. (Wonder why they are breaking M-14's out of mothballs?)
2- Any round from a 7.62x39 mm or above rifle caliber will penetrate all three types of sidings and several internal wall sidings as well.
3- Dont recall if 9mm and 45ACP was tested
All rounds tested went through wood siding with no problems.
Sorry no link to the video.

After the video and this event, I took stock of my home defense battery and the positions of my neighbors housing. Put up my SKS and got out my CAR-15 for a bed side rifle. The SKS was cheaper and I wanted my expensive CAR-15 put up in the safe. But the dangers of the 7.62x39mm round to my neighbors was too great. The 64gr Winchester power points will do for my rifle defensive needs. If my Car-15 is stolen I'll just get another. I dont want to be in the position those Officers find themselves with innocent blood on my hands!

My families thoughts and prayers to little Austin's family

May God have mercy and love for all involved for I can not at this time.

AFJailor wrote:

Well i dont know what video you saw but i speak from experience and ill tell you that a 5.56 nato round will go through a cinderblock like a hot knife through butter...the rounds we use can penetrate steel. So unless the cinderblocks where made of some kind of supernatural concrete than that video is most definately wrong.

Here is a link to that video that I posted on my site a while ago:
http://thirdcoastoutdoors.com/forum/ind ... topic=92.0

Even more off-topic...But what the heck...

"I" heard its another reason why that 6.8mm (I think I recall that being the caliber) is being developed...

Mac likes it!

Yeah I watched the episode...

stormbringerr wrote:a tragedy for all concerned this was caused by sheer stupidity on the part of the officer involved.
maybe its best to find out now that that person probably chose the wrong profession.
you cant afford to make dumb mistakes with guns.

I agree and a slap on the wrist is not good enough. Jail time, and LOTS of it. Like his Paw Paw said, if he had of got the child killed in a car wreck he would face manslaughter charges. Turn about fair play. Cops are not above the law.