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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:38 pm
by ELB
earlwb wrote:It may be using an oval barrel like that Russian gun that was made for Russians recently. They use an oval barrel that has a twist to it to impart the spin....
This?
New Russian 9.6x53mm Lancaster Cartridge
More on Charles Lancaster and Lancaster barrels:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_William_Lancaster
http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/201 ... ndian.html
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:21 pm
by BBYC
We'll find out in a week. I hope this isn't over hyped like the Segway, which was going to radically transform our commutes.
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:48 pm
by Abraham
BBYC,
The only time I've seen Segways was mall cops riding them and I always get a big laugh.
There's some goofy stuff out there for sale and yes, maybe even a bit of use for some of it, but mostly hype is hype is hype...
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:18 pm
by earlwb
Yes that is the one, I couldn't think of it earlier to do a search for it.
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:20 pm
by earlwb
Abraham wrote:BBYC,
The only time I've seen Segways was mall cops riding them and I always get a big laugh.
There's some goofy stuff out there for sale and yes, maybe even a bit of use for some of it, but mostly hype is hype is hype...
I have seen the police using them at various events before. So other PDs are using them as well. But it is hard to say if they will continue to do so. I suspect Segway may have subsidized them.
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:51 am
by The Annoyed Man
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:57 am
by jason812
I didn't think about a fire on release trigger. If this is the case and is allowed to be made, then hopefully this and the Shockwave, not a shotgun, can start a real movement to repeal the ludicrous NFA. I would be interested if I could buy the component or components that makes this not a NFA item, I'm done buying complete AR's.
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:55 am
by TreyHouston
So, what if it fired multiple bulets on the release of the trigger??? What about if it didn’t have a trigger but released many bullets on the computer recognizing a fingerprint?
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:20 pm
by Ike Aramba
TreyHouston wrote:So, what if it fired multiple bulets on the release of the trigger???
If it fires multiple rounds with one trigger action, it's a machine gun.
TreyHouston wrote:What about if it didn’t have a trigger but released many bullets on the computer recognizing a fingerprint?
A trigger doesn't have to be mechanical. A GE M134 is a machine gun according to the ATF.
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:41 pm
by montgomery
ghostrider wrote:very interesting.
while I know the laws are goofy & illogical, how is that not a rifle?
It is not a rifle because either:
A. It has no rifling as defined by BATFE, and / or;
B. It is not semi-automatic or automatic fire as defined by BATFE.
The trigger they are showing in promotional materials fires a single round on trigger "pull" and a second round on trigger release. This categorizes the firearm as a firearm not a rifle, shotgun, or pistol according to BATFE.
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:43 pm
by montgomery
Ike Aramba wrote:So, what if it fired multiple bulets on the release of the trigger???
If it fires multiple rounds with one trigger action, it's a machine gun.
Automatic is defined as one (unreleased) pull that fires more than one round. Release is not part of definition.
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:50 pm
by Ike Aramba
montgomery wrote:Automatic is defined as one (unreleased) pull that fires more than one round. Release is not part of definition.
I don't know where you got that definition of automatic, but I used the 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b) definition of machine gun. I think the ATF does too.
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:56 pm
by montgomery
Ike Aramba wrote:montgomery wrote:Automatic is defined as one (unreleased) pull that fires more than one round. Release is not part of definition.
I don't know where you got that definition of automatic, but I used the 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b) definition of machine gun. I think the ATF does too.
Yep. Single function of a trigger. The BATFE will tell you single function = single pull. Single pull excludes release from the single function because that is what stops the automatic fire in automatic mode. In part, this is from 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b):
(b) Machinegun. The term 'machinegun' means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can
be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:01 pm
by srothstein
Thanks for that video TAM. I think it makes sense that the company found the loophole in the way ATF defines trigger actions. Auto uses the term single function but rifle uses the term single pull. If it has the binary trigger, it is not auto because each round fired requires a difference trigger function (pull and release). It is not a rifle because one pull of the trigger fires two rounds.
I wonder how long this definition will last before legal action is taken to correct it. I also wonder if it could be reclassified by just the ATF making an administrative adjustment to its definitions.