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Saulnier wrote:Maybe the bad guys emptied the gun before it was recovered.

If the thieves had taken the ammunition, the police wouldn't have known it was hollowpoint.

- Jim

Thank you all for the information and spirited opinions.

My friend was not concerned over losing his bullets and assumed that they were illegal. I'll be happy to correct him next time I see him.

My impression was that at the time he was mostly satisfied that the law enforcement officers had recovered his items so quickly and were otherwise very courteous in returning them to him.

My main concern was to ensure I am following the law with the ammunition I routinely use. I am happy to know that is the case.

In a small town, if you live there, it might be wise to leave it alone.
An LEO who would take your ammo on false pretenses might also be the vindictive sort at the next opportunity.

But I'm not that sort either. I suspect at the time the friend was so happy that the police intervened in time and retrieved his property, that he was not inclined to press them on a minor point of little financial consequence.
But I'd probably at least call the chief and explain the situation, along the lines of "I can understand an officer not knowing all the laws, but ammo's expensive, and I'd prefer to keep what's mine."

Saulnier wrote:Ask for the paper trail.
Maybe the bad guys emptied the gun before it was recovered.
Bad guys are bad you know.

Saulnier

But why would the cops claim that the hollow points are illegal?

Do something about it. They cannot be allowed to continue to take property without cause. There is no difference between the HPs and the backpack or anything else in it. I am not bashing LEOs at all. However, these guys had no cause to take the persons property and that practice must stop. If we do nothing about it then it will continue and possibly get worse. Saying a specific LEO or department isn't capable of theft is as ignorant as claiming that was the reason they kept the ammo. Honestly, there are LEOs that take advantage of their position and steal property every chance they get. Those few make the majority look guilty. It is the same as a person developing opinion of any group from the wrongs of a few. Let those few continue their wrongs and the majority looks bad. That is my opinion.

shootthesheet wrote:Do something about it. They cannot be allowed to continue to take property without cause. There is no difference between the HPs and the backpack or anything else in it. I am not bashing LEOs at all. However, these guys had no cause to take the persons property and that practice must stop. If we do nothing about it then it will continue and possibly get worse. Saying a specific LEO or department isn't capable of theft is as ignorant as claiming that was the reason they kept the ammo. Honestly, there are LEOs that take advantage of their position and steal property every chance they get. Those few make the majority look guilty. It is the same as a person developing opinion of any group from the wrongs of a few. Let those few continue their wrongs and the majority looks bad. That is my opinion.

If allowed to steal bullets What next? things like this are best nipped in the bud. We expect the officers not to tolerate stealing by the citizens. We should not tolorate stealing from those who are supposed to enforce these same laws.

Although I realize that pinning on a badge doesn't necessarily mean ones honest, I'm suprised at the number of posts here that seem to assume the ammo is missing due to theft. WHat ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I have an update on this discussion that I think will clear some things up and possibly cause a few more head scratches. Regretfully these details were not divulged to me during the initial recount of the story. Also, some are still developing; these are the current facts as I understand them.

First, my friend did receive his gun back as originally stated, but the police never told him the bullets were illegal. In fact, when he got the gun back the bullets were not even in the evidence room.

I assume the gun and magazine were unloaded on the scene of arrest. My friend, who is from Louisianna, assumed they were illegal here because he says they are illegal in Louisianna. He also does not have a CHL but was traveling from Louisianna to Houston that day so that is why he was carrying.

Apperantly, a second stolen gun was sitting on the thief's lap when the officer approached the vehicle. The LEO apperantly drew his weapon at this point before making the arrest, suspecting he could be shot at.

My friend's gun was recovered from the passenger's pants pocket. It was locked and loaded. Initially the gun was believed to belong to the thief, not to a law-abiding robbery victim.

Also, my friend's backpack (which originally contained his laptop and handgun) was emptied and filled with assorted drugs including PCP (phencyclidine) and marijuana. His laptop was placed in another stolen backpack.

I suspect that because the officers gave my friend the benefit of the doubt on the drug contents of the backpack and didn't make him go thru a great deal of "red tape", he probably felt even less motivated to inquire about his missing bullets. He said they were very courteous and helpful in getting his items back to him, even jokingly suggesting he should claim some of the other nice things in their evidence room.

Finally, and to me, this is the most awful part of the story, the district attorney does not want to press charges on these individuals. The arresting officer contacted my friend and admitted he is very upset about this because he feared for his life during the arrest. He asked my friend to press charges and he agreed that he would. My friend was not overly concerned but will do all he can to assist the officer who was ultimately responsible for recovering his stolen property.

Some other miscellaneous details:
- The thieves were two young hispanic males: one 18 and one 16.
- The thieves broke into the vehicle using the screwdriver-puncture around the keyless passenger handle method (I don't know the technical term for this).
- The quick recovery of the items was due to an illegal left-hand turn made by the thieves right in front of the arresting officer. Genius, I know.

Tommy B wrote: I assume the gun and magazine were unloaded on the scene of arrest. My friend, who is from Louisianna, assumed they were illegal here because he says they are illegal in Louisianna. He also does not have a CHL but was traveling from Louisianna to Houston that day so that is why he was carrying.

He might should double-check that, assuming he's still in Louisiana. They have a prohibition against armor-piercing bullets, but hollowpoints aren't even mentioned anywhere in state law. They also have same non-preemption law that Texas has, so local laws can't be any stricter than state law, regarding firearms.

Not to hijack a thread but just a quick, slightly off-tangent question:

JHP's are illegal in Louisiana???? I googled but couldn't find anything definitive.

MBGuy wrote:Not to hijack a thread but just a quick, slightly off-tangent question:

JHP's are illegal in Louisiana???? I googled but couldn't find anything definitive.

I didn't ask him for a source on his belief in this law, but like you I also could not find any information about it online.

Tommy B wrote:Finally, and to me, this is the most awful part of the story, the district attorney does not want to press charges on these individuals.

Hmm... theft, UCW, drug possession.... why in the world would the DA be resistant to prosecuting that?

As for the conversation earlier regarding "theft" - my initial thoughts were along the lines of, "If the cop was crooked, he would steal the whole gun and not just the ammo." Not sure why there is so much distrust and animosity expressed towards LEOs lately. Seems like we would be more sympathetic to them since we're also in a group (armed citizens) that is also judged by the worst members - no matter how small a percentage of the population they are. Bad cops need to get punished hard - but we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that a cop is crooked without exploring all the possibilities.

McKnife wrote:File a theft report with their department and provide the officer's name as the thief.

That's what I'd do.

I have to say I disagree. First, since the incident occurred over the weekend they obviously haven't tried the thieves yet. The property could have been held as evidence. Sounds like the police cut the victim some slack.

Could have been an honest mistake on the officer's part. I agree, ask the police cheif but do it in a reasonable manner. If it was an honest mistake you may prevent it from happening again and if it wasn't the police chief is not going to instantly take your side over the officers. He knows the officer and doesn't know you. If it is police department policy to not return ammunition there may be a reasonable explanation for it.

For myself, loosing the ammunition seems a small price to pay.

Tommy B wrote:Finally, and to me, this is the most awful part of the story, the district attorney does not want to press charges on these individuals.

This is a major reason why our crime rate is so high.

Perhaps the DA didn't prosecute because something was not handled correctly. It sounds like there was a lot of evidence and such to deal with. Was it possible that the ammunition was not returned because ownership couldn't be clearly identified?

Might there have been some confusion with regards to the terminology used by the officer? Perhaps he stated the ammunition couldn't be returned because it was potential evidence in a crime?

All any of us can do is speculate, since we were not there. I find it interesting how many people jumped on the 'bad cop' bandwagon immediately.