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This just keeps getting more interesting. The fact of the matter is that this whole thing hinges on who started the fight and/or if Zimmerman tried to retreat once the fight was started. Since it seems like we'll never be able to know either of these things,no witnesses, no audio, no video etc. , the only real account we have is Zimmerman's. While it may not sit right with some people, unless/until you can find hard evidence that contradicts his story, it really isn't logical to assume it's anything but true.

jmra wrote: If this turns out to be a true account then a lot of people will be consuming crow. But...I feel my post from early in this thread still applies;
"This is like trying to write a review of a 2 hour movie after watching a 60 second trailer. You can speculate all you want, but until all of the evidence is collected and analyzed it is nothing more than a guessing game. As others have stated, the real story may never be told."

With all due respect, I don't think there's going to be much consumption of crow. The rabble rousers will cry "cover-up", and much of the rabble will follow like good sheeple. Sad, but it's the way of life. Too many have chosen to be victims, and refuse to let go of the title, evidence or not.

ScooterSissy wrote:

jmra wrote: If this turns out to be a true account then a lot of people will be consuming crow. But...I feel my post from early in this thread still applies;
"This is like trying to write a review of a 2 hour movie after watching a 60 second trailer. You can speculate all you want, but until all of the evidence is collected and analyzed it is nothing more than a guessing game. As others have stated, the real story may never be told."

With all due respect, I don't think there's going to be much consumption of crow. The rabble rousers will cry "cover-up", and much of the rabble will follow like good sheeple. Sad, but it's the way of life. Too many have chosen to be victims, and refuse to let go of the title, evidence or not.

This.

The 'reverend' Al Sharpton and other poverty peddlers will continue to drive this van long after the wheels have fallen off.

The events that I almost anticipated correctly:

George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch crime captain who shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, originally told police in a written statement that Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source told ABC News.

Source: http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-sho ... -news.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ScooterSissy wrote:

jmra wrote: If this turns out to be a true account then a lot of people will be consuming crow. But...I feel my post from early in this thread still applies;
"This is like trying to write a review of a 2 hour movie after watching a 60 second trailer. You can speculate all you want, but until all of the evidence is collected and analyzed it is nothing more than a guessing game. As others have stated, the real story may never be told."

With all due respect, I don't think there's going to be much consumption of crow. The rabble rousers will cry "cover-up", and much of the rabble will follow like good sheeple. Sad, but it's the way of life. Too many have chosen to be victims, and refuse to let go of the title, evidence or not.

Actually I meant some of our fellow forum members will need to eat some crow.

jmra wrote:

Jusster wrote:

A-R wrote:No one is disagreeing that legal system should sort this out. Many have been saying this from beginning as rebuttal to all those calling for Zimmerman's head on a platter.

Zimmerman need not be arrested nor in custody in order for legal system to sort this out. Authorities will pick him up if/when evidence provides probable cause or grand jury indicts.

Your rebuttal of "John's" eyewitness statements did nothing to refute this key point: man who was on top beating other man is same man who was moments later on ground presumably shot (gunshot heard, man on ground not moving, witness thinks "he's dead"

The national nutty of hyperbole, side angles, and grandstanding needs to stop.

The people who issued the $10,000 "bounty" need to be arrested for solicitation of murder.

My point was Johns story is in complete contradiction to other witnesses stories. Other witness accounts state it was the man in the white t-shirt who was on top. If you have witnesses who have opposing stories of the same event, then I don’t see how one just simply draws the conclusion that there is not enough evidence to dispute the claim of self defense. Simply put, Johns story is just one of many and should not have been the determining factor just because his story supported Zimmerman’s account.

I in no way agree with any bounty being put out for Zimmerman. I do agree that the media has taken this story way too far. If this case would have been handled properly by Florida authorities in the first place we wouldn’t be discussing it now.


Jusster

According to the police report Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket.

Listen to the published 911 tapes 1-3 at the link below. On the third call the witness is adamant that the person on top was wearing a white t-shirt.

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/teen-sh ... 1-3/vGZnj/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit: A-R....In your reply, the same could be said about John that could be said about the caller in the link above. (Female caller - 3rd call)


Jusster

jmra wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote:

jmra wrote: If this turns out to be a true account then a lot of people will be consuming crow. But...I feel my post from early in this thread still applies;
"This is like trying to write a review of a 2 hour movie after watching a 60 second trailer. You can speculate all you want, but until all of the evidence is collected and analyzed it is nothing more than a guessing game. As others have stated, the real story may never be told."

With all due respect, I don't think there's going to be much consumption of crow. The rabble rousers will cry "cover-up", and much of the rabble will follow like good sheeple. Sad, but it's the way of life. Too many have chosen to be victims, and refuse to let go of the title, evidence or not.

Actually I meant some of our fellow forum members will need to eat some crow.

Ooops ... my bad. Haven't been here long enough to have discerned that. And if that's the case, line me up for a small helping as well. Though I didn't post on here, I did tell some of my friends that Zimmerman should be in jail, and probably was headed there. Since they know I'm a 2A advocate, they wanted my opinion. I gave it based on what I knew. I've since had to tell the same friends that if someone busts my nose and busts open my head sitting on top of me, they may have a view of Glock in their future as well.

I think way too many people have jumped to ignorant conclusions in this case, on both sides of the issue. However, from what I've seen so far, likely the DA, and most definitely the PD, did not act improperly. If/when Zimmerman is cleared (or it's decided there's not enough evidence to prosecute), I wonder if the rabble & rousers will concede?

ScooterSissy wrote:If/when Zimmerman is cleared (or it's decided there's not enough evidence to prosecute), I wonder if the rabble & rousers will concede?

No, they'll double down. They'll either say the system is rigged and/or that the particular facts of this case are irrelevant because it "illustrates" a problem with allowing people to have guns and defend themselves.

jmra wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote:

jmra wrote: If this turns out to be a true account then a lot of people will be consuming crow. But...I feel my post from early in this thread still applies;
"This is like trying to write a review of a 2 hour movie after watching a 60 second trailer. You can speculate all you want, but until all of the evidence is collected and analyzed it is nothing more than a guessing game. As others have stated, the real story may never be told."

With all due respect, I don't think there's going to be much consumption of crow. The rabble rousers will cry "cover-up", and much of the rabble will follow like good sheeple. Sad, but it's the way of life. Too many have chosen to be victims, and refuse to let go of the title, evidence or not.

Actually I meant some of our fellow forum members will need to eat some crow.

Yeah, that won't happen.

no it will just go silent. Thats ok by me. Even I said this case was messy, and it still is, just less than at first glance.

If you're interested, there's a lot of material about the case on the Sanford city website. http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://sanfordfl.gov/right/press_releases.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... k-teenager

At a Monday news conference, Trayvon's mother, father and their lawyers called the report that their son was suspended from school because of a marijuana baggie irrelevant and needlessly hurtful.

Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, said "even in death, they are still disrespecting my son, and I feel that that's a sin."

His mother, Sybrina Fulton, said, "They killed my son, and now they're trying to kill his reputation."

They're not saying it's untrue. They don't dispute the report. Instead, they're saying it's mean and disrespectful when people tell the truth.

Speaking of the truth, here's what the Martin family and their lawyers previously said about Trayvon being suspended.
“He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn’t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],”

jmra wrote:Still a little confused about what constitutes an arrest. If I'm cuffed, put in the back seat of a cruiser, and taken to head quarters to be questioned without my consent; have I not yet been arrested? Is there a difference between arrest and "detained for questioning". I can see if they asked Zimmerman to follow in his car to the station how that would not be considered an arrest, but he was cuffed and stuffed.
Seems to me I have heard LEO on here claim that a traffic stop is actually an arrest. How would what Zimmerman went thru not considered an arrest?

I've been hoping one of our LEOs would respond to this. In my non-LEO understanding, you can be detained and cuffed without being arrested. I believe an arrest occurs when you are formally charged with a crime.

Jusster wrote:My point was Johns story is in complete contradiction to other witnesses stories. Other witness accounts state it was the man in the white t-shirt who was on top. If you have witnesses who have opposing stories of the same event, then I don’t see how one just simply draws the conclusion that there is not enough evidence to dispute the claim of self defense. Simply put, Johns story is just one of many and should not have been the determining factor just because his story supported Zimmerman’s account.

I in no way agree with any bounty being put out for Zimmerman. I do agree that the media has taken this story way too far. If this case would have been handled properly by Florida authorities in the first place we wouldn’t be discussing it now.


Jusster

The other witnesses accounts do not disagree with John's. None of the other witnesses saw the fight. They saw the aftermath, after the gun was fired. At that point Zimmerman was "on top" and Trayvon was lying on the ground dying or dead. Two witnesses saw the fight; a 13-yr-old boy and John. Both place Trayvon on top and Zimmerman on his back (consistent with Zimmerman's account) with Trayvon administering a beating to Zimmerman. No one saw what precipitated the fight (at least none that I'm aware of.)

Here's the Google earth street view recording of the entire event captured live as it occurred through street light cameras, so we now know all the details, before knowing which, I couldn't speculate.
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=8E-MtJBAZvw[/youtube]
If you look really closely, you can see Obama's birth certificate too on the ground over to the right.