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ShootDontTalk wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote: This was an announced CoC meeting. If you and your wife and a few other couples decided you wanted to start wearing a backpatch on leather vests with pretty pink ponies and a top rocker in gold lettering that said "Imagination Riders"; you very well might find yourself at a CoC meeting (just like this one) asking their permission.

Just a question here. If I go out and buy a $40,000 motorcycle for my wife and myself, spend thousands of dollars for matching "biker gear" at the Harley dealer, and wear leather jackets with whatever I want on them, why do I then need to ask permission of anyone?

IMHO there are a lot of hairs being split here. If I wear a Texas rocker on a jacket and someone politely asks me to take it off, I will probably smile and walk away. If they ORDER me to take it off or pay for the privilege of wearing it at the threat of violence, they are going to get a rather different reaction. People who do such things commit extortion. I think going to a meeting where such concepts are even hinted at would be risky. Am I wrong?

If I wanted to wear a white pointy hooded hat, I should be able to wear it anywhere I want, including south Market street in Dallas, but I know that would bring problems. I don't want to, so that's an easy one to avoid.

That said, a few years back, the Oklahoma CoC asked the Patriot Guard Riders (PGR) not to wear the PGR backpatch in Oklahoma, because the predominate colors on the patch were the same as an MC, and the MC objected. The PGR leadership asked us to comply. Most did.

I'm not fond of extortion, but I understand the "rules" they are playing by. I ride with the PGR to to pay respect, and knowingly bringing on trouble doesn't support that mission. I don't wear anything on the back of PGR vest, easy problem to solve.

At the same time, when my wife I ride our $30,000 motorcycle (I'm too cheap for a harley), we do it for for the fun of riding. I see no point in adding "features" to a vest that could easily detract from the fun, and would do little to enhance it. We can wear matching leathers (ours are similar, but not really "matching") without a backpatch.

There are some battles I'm willing to assume for the principle involved. That's not one of them. The rewards are too low, and the risks too great. 8 dead Cossacks can bear witness to that.

Oldgringo wrote:Setting aside the issues of shootings, stabbings and other questionable activities for a moment, why do the biker's cycles have to be so aggressively loud? The Honda Gold Wings have a very friendly sound.

Harley's are V-twins, 2 big cylinders. Honda Goldwings use a flat 6 engine, 6 smaller cylinders for roughly the same size engine. Makes them quieter straight from the manufacturer. Then the V-Twin folks often decide that louder is more impressive, so they modify the exhaust to make them more so. The Goldwingers know it's a loosing battle, enjoy the quite, and spend the money on fancy lights and stuff instead.

We can usually ride further without tiring as well ;)

jason812 wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Setting aside the issues of shootings, stabbings and other questionable activities for a moment, why do the biker's cycles have to be so aggressively loud? The Honda Gold Wings have a very friendly sound.

If it's too loud, you're too old, I think bikes need to have some noise to them but a stock Honda is too quiet and I've heard some bikes that are way too loud. With that being said, I miss my bike that I got rid of 15 years ago but no way I would ride on the street any more. Wish I wouldn't get hurt any more and I'd have another dirt bike in a second. Got rid of that 5 years ago, maybe it took me a while to grow up.

I find it absurd that you have to pay protection money to wear a patch on a leather jacket or Canadian tuxedo. I've heard that even the Christian clubs have to pay these scum bags.

In a coming police auction, there will be plenty of scooters to bid on.

I've never heard of a Christian riding club paying any "dues" to a predominant MC. They may choose different patch design or colors (and I have heard of that happening, a number of times), but never having to pay dues. Riding clubs are not competitors to MCs, they're in a different "business"; but the MC's don't want anyone thinking that one of the RCs is affiliated (if they're not) because they have similar colors.

RPBrown wrote:

AndyC wrote:"Loud pipes save lives" - I have some empathy for that, having being almost sideswiped by cars as a youngster.

I have to wonder whose lives were being saved by the four ear-splitting Harleys that came roaring into and out of 15 mph posted Finley Point State Park yesterday?

ScooterSissy wrote: If I wanted to wear a white pointy hooded hat, I should be able to wear it anywhere I want, including south Market street in Dallas, but I know that would bring problems. I don't want to, so that's an easy one to avoid.

That said, a few years back, the Oklahoma CoC asked the Patriot Guard Riders (PGR) not to wear the PGR backpatch in Oklahoma, because the predominate colors on the patch were the same as an MC, and the MC objected. The PGR leadership asked us to comply. Most did.

I'm not fond of extortion, but I understand the "rules" they are playing by. I ride with the PGR to to pay respect, and knowingly bringing on trouble doesn't support that mission. I don't wear anything on the back of PGR vest, easy problem to solve.

At the same time, when my wife I ride our $30,000 motorcycle (I'm too cheap for a harley), we do it for for the fun of riding. I see no point in adding "features" to a vest that could easily detract from the fun, and would do little to enhance it. We can wear matching leathers (ours are similar, but not really "matching") without a backpatch.

There are some battles I'm willing to assume for the principle involved. That's not one of them. The rewards are too low, and the risks too great. 8 dead Cossacks can bear witness to that.

I understand what you're saying. I just don't understand why anyone would kowtow to a bunch of bikers. Those "rules" you mention were written by people who think extortion is okay. That isn't about a decision to wear a pointy white hood.

I sure hope the Bandidos never figure out that some bikers legally carry an expensive firearm that could be confiscated with a simple "rule." Ben Franklin said, “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” I've lived too many years to accept that tyranny. Sorry. This is not directed at you in any way.

I do thank you for your honesty. I think I understand some of this a bit better.

My wife is at a Central Texas Marketplace store that doesn't cater to my kind - male, knuckle-dragger - and I see there are several police cars guarding Twin Peaks. I would really like to talk to an officer about Waco's no-bikes request, but I think I'm more interested in a quiet Sunday. I don't fear the police. I just don't want to be misinterpreted over a minor issue.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/guns- ... d/33180718" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All the Guns taken are being tested for ballistics and history by ATF.

I have mixed emotions about this. If they all came from Mexico as part of Fast and Furious will we find out? If they were bought privately I'm sure we will hear about it. Many probably were in cars and were never fired and were owned by men who were not criminals.

I wonder how soon and how many of the motorcycles will hit the used market.
How many days does the impound company have after their letter to the owner ?

I wonder how soon and how many of the motorcycles will hit the used market.
How many days does the impound company have after their letter to the owner ?

Most (many?) of those arrested will not be needing them again.

For impound vehicles it is 45 days...2 certified letters have to be sent to both owner and lein holder (If there is one)
I am not sure how this will be handled since they are evidence right now. Any that actually have proof of evidence like blood and bullet holes...can be held till after the owners trial.

SA_Steve wrote:I wonder how soon and how many of the motorcycles will hit the used market.
How many days does the impound company have after their letter to the owner ?

Most (many?) of those arrested will not be needing them again.

I am sure they will be seized under the RICO act.

Are the Fed's involved ? Can the State agencies prosecute under RICO ?

carlson1 wrote:

SA_Steve wrote:I wonder how soon and how many of the motorcycles will hit the used market.
How many days does the impound company have after their letter to the owner ?

Most (many?) of those arrested will not be needing them again.

I am sure they will be seized under the RICO act.

In that case they will be held a loooong time, because they can't be disposed of just because they have been arrested and charged with engaging in organized crime. Each individual owner will have to be convicted before their property can be auctioned off or kept for government use. If there is a secured lien holder involved, they will file a motion to take possession of the property under the terms of the finance contract once the payments fall behind and their secured lien status will allow them to recover the property and dispose of it themselves.

I read some where the neighboring cars from the other restaurant have bullet holes. Are they now evidence?

ShootDontTalk wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote: If I wanted to wear a white pointy hooded hat, I should be able to wear it anywhere I want, including south Market street in Dallas, but I know that would bring problems. I don't want to, so that's an easy one to avoid.

That said, a few years back, the Oklahoma CoC asked the Patriot Guard Riders (PGR) not to wear the PGR backpatch in Oklahoma, because the predominate colors on the patch were the same as an MC, and the MC objected. The PGR leadership asked us to comply. Most did.

I'm not fond of extortion, but I understand the "rules" they are playing by. I ride with the PGR to to pay respect, and knowingly bringing on trouble doesn't support that mission. I don't wear anything on the back of PGR vest, easy problem to solve.

At the same time, when my wife I ride our $30,000 motorcycle (I'm too cheap for a harley), we do it for for the fun of riding. I see no point in adding "features" to a vest that could easily detract from the fun, and would do little to enhance it. We can wear matching leathers (ours are similar, but not really "matching") without a backpatch.

There are some battles I'm willing to assume for the principle involved. That's not one of them. The rewards are too low, and the risks too great. 8 dead Cossacks can bear witness to that.

I understand what you're saying. I just don't understand why anyone would kowtow to a bunch of bikers. Those "rules" you mention were written by people who think extortion is okay. That isn't about a decision to wear a pointy white hood.

I sure hope the Bandidos never figure out that some bikers legally carry an expensive firearm that could be confiscated with a simple "rule." Ben Franklin said, “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” I've lived too many years to accept that tyranny. Sorry. This is not directed at you in any way.

I do thank you for your honesty. I think I understand some of this a bit better.

It's probably worth noting, this is all a whole lot less about "extortion", and more about a lifestyle, and (even if it's misplaced) ego.

Basically, the location rocker says "we're the king of the hill in xyz location". You put the same location rocker below your patch, and you're basically saying "I say I'm the boss, you say you're the boss, let's go at it and find out who's right" (that's actually been happening between a couple of the clubs involved, for a while now).

Now then, say the king club doesn't have a chapter in podunk county. The king club of Texas may say to that club "we don't have a chapter there, you can run the county, but you have to become an affiliate and pay dues". They can choose not to, of course, but that may invite the king club forming a chapter there, or other nonsense. That's where the "extortion" comes in.

But, unless you're going to do a three part patch (top rocker naming the club, bottom rocker naming the location, which can be a city, county, or state, and a club patch) none of that applies. No one is going to ask your GHG-ODM-RC (Grey Haired Grampas One Day a Month Riding Club) to pay any kind of dues, unless you decide to throw on a top and bottom rocker. However, they may tell you that the colors you are using are too close to theirs, and you need to change them. No money involved, they will either tell you to change the patch or the colors, or tell you not to wear it.

I'm going to abandon my pointy hat analogy, and do one more realistic. I have no particular desire to wear a pointy white hat, but blue is my favorite color. I would be making a mistake to walk around southside Dallas with a blue warm-up jacket on, if I know that there are gangs in the area that "claim" that color.

This is much the same thing.

BTW, I'm not in any MC, and my "groups" come closer to the GHG-ODM-RC I made up, but I'm around bikers a lot, and hear a lot. I have nothing to prove to them, or to myself by trying as hard as I can to look like them.