TexasCHLforum.com

TLynnHughes wrote:I think it's already been said here, but I want to reiterate. You have the best and most concise way of putting things sometimes.

It's a gift. I give thanks for it nearly every day, and I regret the omissions. (I'm lazy.)

- Jim

stroo wrote:There are some circumstances in which I would have no moral problem shooting a BG in the back. For example, a BG comes into church shooting and somehow I wind up behind him. I would have no problem shooting the BG in the back to protect others. The wallet scenario might be legally justified because it is at night and you are recovering property. I wouldn't shoot in that case though.

Not even close to the same situation. In the case you mentioned, the felon is not fleeing, but continuing to commit a crime.

Beiruty wrote:

...He is felon and you are not...

Isn't who is, and who ain't, the felon what the jury of your peers determines?

57Coastie wrote:

seamusTX wrote:

Beiruty wrote:However, in the dark and silence of the night, you will have to answer to your conscience. And someday you will have to answer to your deity, whoever that may be.

Same if you let him go and he hurts someone else. Maybe your spouse or child coming home and walking in the door as the armed robber runs out.

Several thoughts:
1. I enjoy the attempts at humor often injected into threads on this board.
2. I don't believe anyone on this site is "looking" for an excuse to shoot anyone.
3. I like the fact that not everyone agrees to any one perfect or final solution to these scenarios.
4. I understand what's "legal" may not be morally acceptable to some. There are many things against
my morals, but they are still legal. Like it or not.
5. I am having difficulty in understanding the concept of a "fair fight". Meaning, in the decision to only shoot a felon
if he is facing me. Only if the felon has a gun/knife/etc pointed at me in the commission of a crime.
Only if he is committing agg robbery in excess of $20 etc. Alas, one of the many things, people disagree to agree.
6. I truly hope none of us is forced into a situation that requires using their weapon against another human being. Period.

amber wrote:Same if you let him go and he hurts someone else. Maybe your spouse or child coming home and walking in the door as the armed robber runs out.

Sorry. The knowledge and power are not given to us to stop what someone might do beyond the next minute.

Have you read Les Misérables? Fascinating book.

Or maybe you know what Gollum did at the end of The Return of the King, and what Gandalf said about Gollum earlier.

gemini wrote:Several thoughts:
3. I like the fact that not everyone agrees to any one perfect or final solution to these scenarios.
4. I understand what's "legal" may not be morally acceptable to some. There are many things against
my morals, but they are still legal. Like it or not.
5. I am having difficulty in understanding the concept of a "fair fight". Meaning, in the decision to only shoot a felon
if he is facing me. Only if the felon has a gun/knife/etc pointed at me in the commission of a crime. Only if he is committing agg robbery in excess of $20 etc. Alas, one of the many things, people disagree to agree.

We are talking about unique, chaotic situations where human life is at risk. There is no pat answer, and cannot be.

- Jim

seamusTX: "We are talking about unique, chaotic situations where human life is at risk. There is no pat answer, and cannot be".

- Jim

I thought we were talking about the OP:

marksiwel wrote:Its night time, I walk to my house, Someone Holds me at gun point, asks for my wallet. I give it to them, they turn to flee, I shot them in the back

Am I covered under the law?

He was asking a question. Result? Thread drift, a vague attempt at name calling, and disagreements regarding law and moral judgements.
Some of the reasons I keep coming to this site, variety of OPINIONS, and it keeps you thinking about your reactions to different incidents whether real or imagined.

gemini wrote:I thought we were talking about the OP:

marksiwel wrote:Its night time, I walk to my house, Someone Holds me at gun point, asks for my wallet. I give it to them, they turn to flee, I shot them in the back

Am I covered under the law?

Sorry.

That case falls under recovering the fruits of robbery, PC 9.42.

Of course, one has to pray that the grand jury sees it that way.

My other responses were thread drift.

- Jim

Wasn't one of the original justifications for "legalizing" shooting a criminal in the back to lessen/remove the automatic response of "back shooting = murder"? I'm not justifying shooting someone in the back to recover stolen property or out if some misguided fear or legal justification, but I think there have been cases of truly justified self-defense shooters being railroaded to prison by overzealous prosecutors because the criminal turned at last second as shot was being fired, thus the bullet ended up in BG's back and GG who made a morally and legally justifiable shoot must defend his freedom in court because of it.

seamusTX wrote:

Of course, one has to pray that the grand jury sees it that way.

...and, this is what it is all about...

austinrealtor wrote:Wasn't one of the original justifications for "legalizing" shooting a criminal in the back to lessen/remove the automatic response of "back shooting = murder"?

Texas law refers only to the use of deadly force, not the means with which deadly force is applied. It could be a firearm or a sharp rock.

I can't say this often enough: the justifications in chapter 9 of the Penal Code are defenses to prosecution. They are not a "get out of jail free card," although they sometimes function that way. A prosecutor can always test the validity of your defense.

- Jim

gemini wrote:Several thoughts:
1. I enjoy the attempts at humor often injected into threads on this board.
2. I don't believe anyone on this site is "looking" for an excuse to shoot anyone.
3. I like the fact that not everyone agrees to any one perfect or final solution to these scenarios.
4. I understand what's "legal" may not be morally acceptable to some. There are many things against
my morals, but they are still legal. Like it or not.
5. I am having difficulty in understanding the concept of a "fair fight". Meaning, in the decision to only shoot a felon
if he is facing me. Only if the felon has a gun/knife/etc pointed at me in the commission of a crime.
Only if he is committing agg robbery in excess of $20 etc. Alas, one of the many things, people disagree to agree.
6. I truly hope none of us is forced into a situation that requires using their weapon against another human being. Period.

I agree, especially with #6.

USA1 wrote:In all seriousness , this is a question that I think about a lot.

I just can't see myself shooting someone in the back if they are fleeing . Things can be replaced .
My personal reason for carrying a gun is to stop an attacker , stop someone from attacking my family , and to stop an intruder in my house.

If someone turns and runs after seeing my gun , I will not shoot .

I'm curious to get others opinions on the subject.

marksiwel wrote:Its night time, I walk to my house, Someone Holds me at gun point, asks for my wallet. I give it to them, they turn to flee, I shot them in the back
Am I covered under the law?

To me it's not about recovering a wallet.
I also respectfully disagree that there is still not an "imminent threat" for how long does it take to turn around and fire at you or your family seconds after the gun was pointed at your head? IMO an imminent threat does not mean the suspect's gun needs to be pointed at one's head.

I could see it going down either way. If you sensed that it's some scared kid running as fast as they could then I would not fire for human life is too sacred and the property taken is a non issue to me. But if they were still in my home with my family there and they were walking fast, calm, and looking around for some reason, their gun in their hands and I, as a "reasonable man," felt me or my family were in imminent danger, then maybe so. I know I added some details but that's what counts in order to make the biggest decision of one's life.

So, being "covered under the law" I would guess the answer is somewhere between Maybe and It Depends.

If you just absolutely must gotta' shoot 'em in the house, I'd suggest doing it in the kitchen or some other room that's not carpeted.

Yo gonna' have 'nough 'splainin' and forms to fill out as it is witout havin' to replace Momma's carpet too.