TexasCHLforum.com

chabouk wrote:

CompVest wrote:4t5, I don't know if you have your CHL or not but either way perhaps you should read Texas Government Code 411.207(a). It is a law whether you agree with it or not that LEOs can disarm you.

Sec. 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.

Nothing in there about running serial numbers, nor about SOP, nor about departmental policy.

True enough, but her answer was in regard to his comment about being disarmed, which was "Come and get it!"

I don't like the idea of a cop running the serial numbers on my guns, but once he/she has lawfully disarmed me, my understanding is that the serial numbers are now "in his/her view," and the LEO may now legally run the numbers. My distaste for it isn't because I have anything to hide, but because I don't like the implication that my guns are stolen. But I'm sure as heck not going to give the cop a lot of lip or attitude over it. For one thing, this is not the hill I want to die on. For another, I'm too tired for nonsense like that, and I just want to get home to my family like he wants to get home to his. A smile and a pleasant demeanor are just like lubricating your slide. They help to prevent social malfunctions.

Note to self: Do NOT down your dinner with a Mountain Dew, and have a nightcap of chai tea before going to bed, so as to prevent posting on forums at 3:20 a.m.

Oldgringo wrote:Don't speed, don't run stop signs and drive sensibly within the law and one shouldn't have these issues...you reckon?

Absolutely! If you don't want to run the chance of being treated like a BG don't break the law. Keep in mind the LEO pulling you over most likely doesn't know you. Having a CHL doesn't mean you are a good guy any more than having a badge means you will be dealing with a good cop. Anyone that chooses to speed, run a stop sign, etc are breaking the law why should they expect to be treated like a good guy? I believe that the law breaker should treat the LEO as they want to be treated.

CompVest wrote:I believe that the law breaker should treat the LEO as they want to be treated.

I believe that somebody REALLY famous once said nearly those same words.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

CompVest wrote:I believe that the law breaker should treat the LEO as they want to be treated.

I believe that somebody REALLY famous once said nearly those same words.

I've lived by The Golden Rule all my life......I have few enemies.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

CompVest wrote:I believe that the law breaker should treat the LEO as they want to be treated.

I believe that somebody REALLY famous once said nearly those same words.

The Ancient Egyptians?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden ... ient_Egypt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Or the Ancient Greeks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden ... philosophy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others"



Sorry couldnt resist.

chabouk wrote:

CompVest wrote:4t5, I don't know if you have your CHL or not but either way perhaps you should read Texas Government Code 411.207(a). It is a law whether you agree with it or not that LEOs can disarm you.

Sec. 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.

Nothing in there about running serial numbers, nor about SOP, nor about departmental policy.

Contrary to what you believe a Commisioned Officer can disarm anyone including other LEO during a
traffic stop and run the serial number of your weapon against the NCIC Stolen Gun Database. Welcome
to the NWO. If you refuse he probably will arrest you. I got pulled over Saturday and the Officer took
both pistols and ran the SN's, while I complained about it of course.

Man what's up with 4t5 guy?

marksiwel wrote:Hands on the Wheel, Smile. Engine off, Radio off. "Yes Officer" "No Officer" let officer know if I need to take hands off wheel.

and interior lights on at night, all windows down on first approach - especially if you have tint
the only problem I've had is getting passengers to execute the same protocol - even that very special passenger...

2barearms wrote:

chabouk wrote:

CompVest wrote:4t5, I don't know if you have your CHL or not but either way perhaps you should read Texas Government Code 411.207(a). It is a law whether you agree with it or not that LEOs can disarm you.

Sec. 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.

Nothing in there about running serial numbers, nor about SOP, nor about departmental policy.

Contrary to what you believe a Commisioned Officer can disarm anyone including other LEO during a
traffic stop and run the serial number of your weapon against the NCIC Stolen Gun Database. Welcome
to the NWO. If you refuse he probably will arrest you. I got pulled over Saturday and the Officer took
both pistols and ran the SN's, while I complained about it of course.

Man what's up with 4t5 guy?

Contrary to what you believe, an officer cannot legally disarm anyone as a matter of course. Given some articulable reason to believe it is for safety, he can disarm a CHL. Given some more reason to be suspicious, he may disarm almost anyone. But he better be making an arrest or have some excellent reason to try to disarm another peace officer. Other than arrests (or supervisors taking a weapon during a suspension), I have never seen this done in my career. I certainly would never have disarmed another peace officer unless I was arresting him. Of course, to be fair, i have never disarmed a CHL either.

srothstein wrote:

2barearms wrote:

chabouk wrote:

CompVest wrote:4t5, I don't know if you have your CHL or not but either way perhaps you should read Texas Government Code 411.207(a). It is a law whether you agree with it or not that LEOs can disarm you.

Sec. 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.

Nothing in there about running serial numbers, nor about SOP, nor about departmental policy.

Contrary to what you believe a Commisioned Officer can disarm anyone including other LEO during a
traffic stop and run the serial number of your weapon against the NCIC Stolen Gun Database. Welcome
to the NWO. If you refuse he probably will arrest you. I got pulled over Saturday and the Officer took
both pistols and ran the SN's, while I complained about it of course.

Man what's up with 4t5 guy?

Contrary to what you believe, an officer cannot legally disarm anyone as a matter of course. Given some articulable reason to believe it is for safety, he can disarm a CHL. Given some more reason to be suspicious, he may disarm almost anyone. But he better be making an arrest or have some excellent reason to try to disarm another peace officer. Other than arrests (or supervisors taking a weapon during a suspension), I have never seen this done in my career. I certainly would never have disarmed another peace officer unless I was arresting him. Of course, to be fair, i have never disarmed a CHL either.

Well, you better go have a talk with the DPS then, that's exactly what I was told this morning and if you'd like his rank, name and telephone number
and the Trooper who pulled me over and disarmed me and ran the SN's of my pistols, I'll gladly let you tell him how he should do it. I don't think they
care to be honest. I plan on talking to his Captain tomorrow, this crap takes a lot time out my very busy day. I'm a Life Member of TSRA, Houston Gun
Collectors and Gun Owners of America and I've been in contact with TSRA about this and the suggestion was to try to work it out first. If this doesn't
get resolved to my satisfaction this week I'll take the podium in front of a hundreds of Members at the Houston Gun Collectors Association meeting
next month and let them all know what going on. Also know I have many close friends in LE in 3 jurisdictions, they'd be the first to tell you I'm the guy
you want driving by when some bad guy has you down.

PM me and I'll send you the info maybe they'll listen to another cop.

2barearms wrote: Well, you better go have a talk with the DPS then, that's exactly what I was told this morning and if you'd like his rank, name and telephone number
and the Trooper who pulled me over and disarmed me and ran the SN's of my pistols, I'll gladly let you tell him how he should do it. I don't think they
care to be honest. I plan on talking to his Captain tomorrow, this crap takes a lot time out my very busy day. I'm a Life Member of TSRA, Houston Gun
Collectors and Gun Owners of America and I've been in contact with TSRA about this and the suggestion was to try to work it out first. If this doesn't
get resolved to my satisfaction this week I'll take the podium in front of a hundreds of Members at the Houston Gun Collectors Association meeting
next month and let them all know what going on. Also know I have many close friends in LE in 3 jurisdictions, they'd be the first to tell you I'm the guy
you want driving by when some bad guy has you down.

PM me and I'll send you the info maybe they'll listen to another cop.

If I thought it would do any good, I would call the trooper for you and tell him exactly where he went wrong. But I have beat my head against that wall too many times. There are lots of good troopers out there that will listen, and some that support CHL, but they are not as common as I would like. I hope that you can get a better result by seeing his supervisors (I normally suggest starting at the sergeant and then working the way up the chain to the Colonel if necessary). The current Colonel is much more concerned about their relationship with citizens though, so you might have some good luck.

srothstein wrote:

2barearms wrote: Well, you better go have a talk with the DPS then, that's exactly what I was told this morning and if you'd like his rank, name and telephone number
and the Trooper who pulled me over and disarmed me and ran the SN's of my pistols, I'll gladly let you tell him how he should do it. I don't think they
care to be honest. I plan on talking to his Captain tomorrow, this crap takes a lot time out my very busy day. I'm a Life Member of TSRA, Houston Gun
Collectors and Gun Owners of America and I've been in contact with TSRA about this and the suggestion was to try to work it out first. If this doesn't
get resolved to my satisfaction this week I'll take the podium in front of a hundreds of Members at the Houston Gun Collectors Association meeting
next month and let them all know what going on. Also know I have many close friends in LE in 3 jurisdictions, they'd be the first to tell you I'm the guy
you want driving by when some bad guy has you down.

PM me and I'll send you the info maybe they'll listen to another cop.

If I thought it would do any good, I would call the trooper for you and tell him exactly where he went wrong. But I have beat my head against that wall too many times. There are lots of good troopers out there that will listen, and some that support CHL, but they are not as common as I would like. I hope that you can get a better result by seeing his supervisors (I normally suggest starting at the sergeant and then working the way up the chain to the Colonel if necessary). The current Colonel is much more concerned about their relationship with citizens though, so you might have some good luck.

Steve,

Don't get me wrong, I'm going out of my way being courteous and helpful along the way. I took the morning off(I run a successful metal fab business during the day)
and went to see his Sergeant in person first (he wasn't in) I originally requested to review the tape with him and I just got the impression it wouldn't change his mind. He did admit that the Trooper had misstated DPS policy on mandatory SN checks of CHL weapons, so I assumed he reviewed the tape and audio prior to calling me later in the
morning. He said this issue would be addressed and stated that they CAN run them vs MUST run them, but I, like you still believe that LE is prohibited by state law from
disarming us without a reason. He argued many points and I ended up agreeing to disagree, so on to Plan D. I will probably officially request the tape be preserved and
made available for reviewing tomorrow.

2barearms wrote:

srothstein wrote:

2barearms wrote: Well, you better go have a talk with the DPS then, that's exactly what I was told this morning and if you'd like his rank, name and telephone number
and the Trooper who pulled me over and disarmed me and ran the SN's of my pistols, I'll gladly let you tell him how he should do it. I don't think they
care to be honest. I plan on talking to his Captain tomorrow, this crap takes a lot time out my very busy day. I'm a Life Member of TSRA, Houston Gun
Collectors and Gun Owners of America and I've been in contact with TSRA about this and the suggestion was to try to work it out first. If this doesn't
get resolved to my satisfaction this week I'll take the podium in front of a hundreds of Members at the Houston Gun Collectors Association meeting
next month and let them all know what going on. Also know I have many close friends in LE in 3 jurisdictions, they'd be the first to tell you I'm the guy
you want driving by when some bad guy has you down.

PM me and I'll send you the info maybe they'll listen to another cop.

If I thought it would do any good, I would call the trooper for you and tell him exactly where he went wrong. But I have beat my head against that wall too many times. There are lots of good troopers out there that will listen, and some that support CHL, but they are not as common as I would like. I hope that you can get a better result by seeing his supervisors (I normally suggest starting at the sergeant and then working the way up the chain to the Colonel if necessary). The current Colonel is much more concerned about their relationship with citizens though, so you might have some good luck.

Steve,

Don't get me wrong, I'm going out of my way being courteous and helpful along the way. I took the morning off(I run a successful metal fab business during the day)
and went to see his Sergeant in person first (he wasn't in) I originally requested to review the tape with him and I just got the impression it wouldn't change his mind. He did admit that the Trooper had misstated DPS policy on mandatory SN checks of CHL weapons, so I assumed he reviewed the tape and audio prior to calling me later in the
morning. He said this issue would be addressed and stated that they CAN run them vs MUST run them, but I, like you still believe that LE is prohibited by state law from
disarming us without a reason. He argued many points and I ended up agreeing to disagree, so on to Plan D. I will probably officially request the tape be preserved and
made available for reviewing tomorrow.

Good luck to you Sir. My past experiences with the DPS attorney for CHL was less than stellar. Very similar to
Please continue to keep us posted on your experience (progress?) with DPS regarding this matter.

Oldgringo wrote:Don't speed, don't run stop signs and drive sensibly within the law and one shouldn't have these issues...you reckon?

This, of course, in nonsense. Any officer could find probable cause to pull over a vehicle after a short period of following that vehicle. The motor vehicle laws are so complex that nobody can drive 100% legally for very long. Did you signal 100 ft before changing lanes? Come to a full and complete stop at the stop sign? Stop before crossing the sidewalk while exiting the parking lot? Are your tires worn? Lights working? Inspection sticker up to date? Using a cell phone? If they want to pull you over, they will.

sjfcontrol wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Don't speed, don't run stop signs and drive sensibly within the law and one shouldn't have these issues...you reckon?

This, of course, in nonsense. Any officer could find probable cause to pull over a vehicle after a short period of following that vehicle. The motor vehicle laws are so complex that nobody can drive 100% legally for very long. Did you signal 100 ft before changing lanes? Come to a full and complete stop at the stop sign? Stop before crossing the sidewalk while exiting the parking lot? Are your tires worn? Lights working? Inspection sticker up to date? Using a cell phone? If they want to pull you over, they will.

Don't forget the always-useful "swerving within the lane".

chabouk wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Don't speed, don't run stop signs and drive sensibly within the law and one shouldn't have these issues...you reckon?

This, of course, in nonsense. Any officer could find probable cause to pull over a vehicle after a short period of following that vehicle. The motor vehicle laws are so complex that nobody can drive 100% legally for very long. Did you signal 100 ft before changing lanes? Come to a full and complete stop at the stop sign? Stop before crossing the sidewalk while exiting the parking lot? Are your tires worn? Lights working? Inspection sticker up to date? Using a cell phone? If they want to pull you over, they will.

Don't forget the always-useful "swerving within the lane".

Driving too slow. Following too closely. And of course do I even have to mention DWB?