TexasCHLforum.com

KD5NRH wrote:

Hoi Polloi wrote:How many different ages of majority do we have in our country?

IIRC, these are just a few...
Young teens can be certified and tried as adults and not as juveniles.
16 to drive unaccompanied
17 to join the military
18 to vote and be tried as an adult
21 to drink alcohol
24 to be considered independent of one's parents for federal college grants and loans

25 to be elected to the House of Representatives
30 to be elected to the Senate
35 to be President, which leads to one of my biggest pet peeves with the Presidential order of succession; if the Speaker of the House can be as young as 25 and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate can be 30, it can then skip directly from the VP to the cabinet members, who, being appointed rather than elected, have, IMO, no business being in the succession at all.

I think that puts me near my comma quota for the day.

But in a sense, doesn't that progression simply mirror the way life works? You don't go to bed one night a pimply-faced fourteen-year-old with no concerns beyond trying to figure out how to talk to the cute girl in homeroom and then wake up the next day an adult with a job, a mortgage, a wife, and kids. Responsibility typically comes in stages.

Do we really want our laws to say that one day a person is too young to drive, join the military, vote, be tried as an adult, drink alcohol, apply for independent student loans, be elected to the U.S. House of Representatives, be elected to the U.S. Senate, or be elected U.S. President and that the next day he or she is old enough to do all of the above?

Douva wrote:

KD5NRH wrote:

Hoi Polloi wrote:How many different ages of majority do we have in our country?

IIRC, these are just a few...
Young teens can be certified and tried as adults and not as juveniles.
16 to drive unaccompanied
17 to join the military
18 to vote and be tried as an adult
21 to drink alcohol
24 to be considered independent of one's parents for federal college grants and loans

25 to be elected to the House of Representatives
30 to be elected to the Senate
35 to be President, which leads to one of my biggest pet peeves with the Presidential order of succession; if the Speaker of the House can be as young as 25 and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate can be 30, it can then skip directly from the VP to the cabinet members, who, being appointed rather than elected, have, IMO, no business being in the succession at all.

I think that puts me near my comma quota for the day.

But in a sense, doesn't that progression simply mirror the way life works? You don't go to bed one night a pimply-faced fourteen-year-old with no concerns beyond trying to figure out how to talk to the cute girl in homeroom and then wake up the next day an adult with a job, a mortgage, a wife, and kids. Responsibility typically comes in stages.

Do we really want our laws to say that one day a person is too young to drive, join the military, vote, be tried as an adult, drink alcohol, apply for independent student loans, be elected to the U.S. House of Representatives, be elected to the U.S. Senate, or be elected U.S. President and that the next day he or she is old enough to do all of the above?

That is how it is. An arbitrary birthday reached and we have "rights" and "obligations". There is no conceivable and practicable method of telling if a member of society is actually ready to assume those responsibilities, or not.

Douva wrote:But in a sense, doesn't that progression simply mirror the way life works? You don't go to bed one night a pimply-faced fourteen-year-old with no concerns beyond trying to figure out how to talk to the cute girl in homeroom and then wake up the next day an adult with a job, a mortgage, a wife, and kids. Responsibility typically comes in stages.

It also comes at different rates for different people; does it really make sense to say that on day 6569 of your life you're not old enough to do anything without your parents' consent, but on day 6571 you can buy a pack of cigarettes and a rifle, regardless of whether you're the kid with a perfect SAT score and your own successful business or the one with a successful...undocumented pharmaceutical business?

KD5NRH wrote:

Douva wrote:But in a sense, doesn't that progression simply mirror the way life works? You don't go to bed one night a pimply-faced fourteen-year-old with no concerns beyond trying to figure out how to talk to the cute girl in homeroom and then wake up the next day an adult with a job, a mortgage, a wife, and kids. Responsibility typically comes in stages.

It also comes at different rates for different people; does it really make sense to say that on day 6569 of your life you're not old enough to do anything without your parents' consent, but on day 6571 you can buy a pack of cigarettes and a rifle, regardless of whether you're the kid with a perfect SAT score and your own successful business or the one with a successful...undocumented pharmaceutical business?

Like I tell people who question whether 21-year-olds are mature enough to carry handguns, we have to draw the line somewhere.

Douva wrote:

KD5NRH wrote:

Douva wrote:But in a sense, doesn't that progression simply mirror the way life works? You don't go to bed one night a pimply-faced fourteen-year-old with no concerns beyond trying to figure out how to talk to the cute girl in homeroom and then wake up the next day an adult with a job, a mortgage, a wife, and kids. Responsibility typically comes in stages.

It also comes at different rates for different people; does it really make sense to say that on day 6569 of your life you're not old enough to do anything without your parents' consent, but on day 6571 you can buy a pack of cigarettes and a rifle, regardless of whether you're the kid with a perfect SAT score and your own successful business or the one with a successful...undocumented pharmaceutical business?

Like I tell people who question whether 21-year-olds are mature enough to carry handguns, we have to draw the line somewhere.

Let's draw it at the same place we draw it with buying one of these: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/52780-55.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best case of age hypocrisy: 16 year old girls charged AS ADULTS for producing "child porn" when they sent each other naked sext pics.

Or the 28/25 yo couple charged for producing child porn for taking pics of the 3some when the other girl was 17. It was legal to have sex with her, just not take pics.

While I support lowering the age to 18, I think this lawsuit will be the one to kill the campus carry effort next semester if it fails to pass, considering the amount of influence one Liberal CenTex city can have. Do I think the NRA has bitten off more than it can chew? Not really, since they've been pretty good about backing up cases. So I hope everything ends up working well in the end.

As far as priorities go, I think the big question you have to ask yourself is this. Which is more important to you, extending the scope of who can carry, or extending the scope of where you can carry?

That being said, I apologize to the 3 guys who I said I'm going to send t-shirts to. I've been extremely busy w/ school this semester and now that finals are over I'll be putting them in the mail ASAP.

I understand the concern some campus-carry supporters have about the NRA lawsuits. Here are a couple of talking points I think will help.

People 18 through 20 years old can already;
1. Buy handguns, just not from a dealer;
2. Carry a handgun in their car without a CHL;
2. Get a CHL (active military or veteran).

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I understand the concern some campus-carry supporters have about the NRA lawsuits. Here are a couple of talking points I think will help.

People 18 through 20 years old can already;
1. Buy handguns, just not from a dealer;
2. Carry a handgun in their car without a CHL;
2. Get a CHL (active military).

Chas.

To refine this a bit, Texas state law allows for people 18 - 20 to get a chl who are active military, honorably discharged military or military reserves. IMO, once a person reaches 18, they are an adult in all respects and without limitation. Here is a quote from texas law as posted on the TX dps site

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GC §411.172. ELIGIBILITY. (a) A person is eligible for a license to
carry a concealed handgun if the person:
(1) is a legal resident of this state for the six-month period preceding
the date of application under this subchapter or is otherwise eligible for
a license under Section 411.173(a);
(2) is at least 21 years of age;
...
(g) Notwithstanding Subsection (a)(2), a person who is at least 18
years of age but not yet 21 years of age is eligible for a license to carry
a concealed handgun if the person:
(1) is a member or veteran of the United States armed forces, including
a member or veteran of the reserves or national guard;
(2) was discharged under honorable conditions, if discharged
from the United States armed forces, reserves, or national guard; and
(3) meets the other eligibility requirements of Subsection (a) except
for the minimum age required by federal law to purchase a handgun.
(h) The issuance of a license to carry a concealed handgun to a
person eligible under Subsection (g) does not affect the person's ability
to purchase a handgun or ammunition under federal law.

You're right. I had forgotten that "veteran" was included in the bill. There was a discussion about whether there was a realistic chance that someone would be honorably discharged by age 20, but I forgot that the ultimate decision was to make the statute applicable to veterans.

Good catch, thanks.
Chas.

mmestx wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I understand the concern some campus-carry supporters have about the NRA lawsuits. Here are a couple of talking points I think will help.

People 18 through 20 years old can already;
1. Buy handguns, just not from a dealer;
2. Carry a handgun in their car without a CHL;
2. Get a CHL (active military).

Chas.

To refine this a bit, Texas state law allows for people 18 - 20 to get a chl who are active military, honorably discharged military or military reserves. IMO, once a person reaches 18, they are an adult in all respects and without limitation. Here is a quote from texas law as posted on the TX dps site

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GC §411.172. ELIGIBILITY. (a) A person is eligible for a license to
carry a concealed handgun if the person:
(1) is a legal resident of this state for the six-month period preceding
the date of application under this subchapter or is otherwise eligible for
a license under Section 411.173(a);
(2) is at least 21 years of age;
...
(g) Notwithstanding Subsection (a)(2), a person who is at least 18
years of age but not yet 21 years of age is eligible for a license to carry
a concealed handgun if the person:
(1) is a member or veteran of the United States armed forces, including
a member or veteran of the reserves or national guard;
(2) was discharged under honorable conditions, if discharged
from the United States armed forces, reserves, or national guard; and
(3) meets the other eligibility requirements of Subsection (a) except
for the minimum age required by federal law to purchase a handgun.
(h) The issuance of a license to carry a concealed handgun to a
person eligible under Subsection (g) does not affect the person's ability
to purchase a handgun or ammunition under federal law.

Howdy all,

I'm under 21, but have my CHL through the military loophole

I can't buy ammo for my pistol from any stores
I can't buy pistols from any stores
I can't hold the pistols I would like to look at.
(all the while I have my SIG on me)

Another septate, but important issue is this.

I can't carry my pistol on base.
I can't bring any firearms on base because the armory is full.
I'm supposed to get written permission from my commander before I buy any firearm. (I don't because its none of their business)
I'm supposed to get permission before going shooting because it is a "hazardous activity". (again, none of their business)
Our active shooter instructions include throwing text books at an attacker.

Lets try and get rights for those of us under 21 and those of us serving in the military.

Zoomie wrote:Lets try and get rights for those of us under 21 and those of us serving in the military.

Regardless of age, those serving in the military should have all of the rights and privileges of a U.S. citizen.

Charles,

Thanks for those talking points.

A little OT, but when I was seventeen I used to run...a lot. I used to run occasionally with a DPS trooper in the neighborhood. He was the only one that could keep up with me on either my eight or ten mile days. I was do to go in in three months, he invited me in for a beer. I squirmed a little and he said that he figured if I was old enough to serve, I was old enough to have a beer.

I didn't quite get it then, I do now. Why can an eighteen year old (or even seventeen year old) be responsible enough to be set on the ground in foreign lands with arms, explosives and crypto yet not responsible enough to carry CCW after undergoing the training and background checks?