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AFCop wrote:gig - I thought we still had "incedent to arrest" as long as there was a reasonable belief the vehicle would be reoccupied?

If you are going to release it to someone and you don't have PC from your arrest (IE - looking for booze on a DWI arrest), then I believe the only actions you can take would be a Terry frisk of the lunge area. If if is getting towed, then you know the vehicle is not going to be reoccupied. This is what I've come to understand but I could be wrong since this is new case law.

gigag04,

What's the definition of: Terry frisk of the lunge area?

Sounds kinda chiropractic or medical?

Thanks!

Abraham wrote:gigag04,

What's the definition of: Terry frisk of the lunge area?

Sounds kinda chiropractic or medical?

Thanks!

Ask Terry, he/she must be in the Lounge.
I'm assuming Terry is some case law, defining a type of frisk, but I was curious too.
Terry v Ohio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lunge area:
(Ohio) State v Wilcox
http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod/do ... o-3856.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Terry frisk of anything is limited form of a search for officer safety. The officer should have articulable reasons to Terry frisk and not just do it because.

If I'm releasing a vehicle of an arrestee to someone I'll check the front seats top and bottom and the back seat.

If I'm on a scene and someone keeps putting their hands in their pockets (ie cold weather), I'll pat them down checking for weapons only. This is also a Terry frisk as courts would interpret it.

This fairly new decision out of Ohio nicely summarizes a Terry frisk, and what a "lunge area" is. Says the same thing as gigag04 said, with a lot more words.

http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/ ... o-5927.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Read together gigag04's response, above, and this court decision, show an interesting contrast. They point out, on the one hand, what a knowledgeable and competent LEO needs to know, under the pressure of a real-time situation with his life perhaps in danger, and, on the other, how after the fact the lawyers and judges can armchair quarterback the case at their leisure.

The LEO in the Ohio case passed muster.

Elmo

So there really is a "lunge" area. I thought it was just a severe typo for "Luggage".

sjfcontrol wrote:So there really is a "lunge" area. I thought it was just a severe typo for "Luggage".

You're thinking of the TSA which frisks lots of Terrys.

sjfcontrol wrote:So there really is a "lunge" area. I thought it was just a severe typo for "Luggage".

Yeah, the lunge area is where they stage the sleds before the lunge run.

Dragonfighter wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:So there really is a "lunge" area. I thought it was just a severe typo for "Luggage".

Yeah, the lunge area is where they stage the sleds before the lunge run.

It could be a place to eat your mid-day meal... In the lunge-room.

gigag04 wrote:Nope if we take custody of your car via a rotation wrecker we have a right to protect ourselves civilly.

You can prevent it by not getting arrested. :)

That doesn't sound very American to me...while I understand that MOST LEOs are good folks doing a tough job, that doesn't account for unscrupulous types, especially in some of the larger cities in this nation, and indeed, in this state. I never really worried too much about it before, but ever since that guy in Round Rock had his spate of trouble, I have. (Yes, I bring this one up because I don't utilize illegal substances, I do NOT drink alcohol and drive, not even one beer, and I have a spotless past including 20 years honorable active service with the USAF, but being called in as a MWG doesn't sound like too much fun.) Now, in light of the media-driven political storm from that tragic event in Arizona, all it would take is the wrong bumper sticker...maybe even an NRA sticker, to get pulled over and perhaps arrested in one or two cities (you can guess which ones). You know, for "safety" reasons. If I haven't done something of some serious gravity, committed a REAL CRIME, then I shouldn't have my personal possessions pawed through. Smells darned fishy to me, no personal offense intended.

No probable cause to search Jared Loughner's car before shooting Rep. Giffords and others. Here is a case study about what we have been chatting about.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/us/po ... semailema3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Elmo

b322da wrote:No probable cause to search Jared Loughner's car before shooting Rep. Giffords and others. Here is a case study about what we have been chatting about.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/us/po ... semailema3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Elmo

I see no issue with this. The LEO had no PC to search. Hindsight is always 20/20, but the law worked the way it was supposed to. This is a non-issue to me.

pbwalker wrote:

b322da wrote:No probable cause to search Jared Loughner's car before shooting Rep. Giffords and others. Here is a case study about what we have been chatting about.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/us/po ... semailema3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Elmo

I see no issue with this. The LEO had no PC to search. Hindsight is always 20/20, but the law worked the way it was supposed to. This is a non-issue to me.

No problem for me, either, pb. Never implied there was. It may be hard to believe that this was a posting on this forum not complaining about something. Just thought it might be of interest to those, like me, who would rather see 10 guilty walk rather than 1 innocent hung. A cop who did his job right, the way I believe most do their job. Pima County, AZ appears to have some fine LEOs in general, like the sheriff for example.

Elmo

b322da wrote: No problem for me, either, pb. Never implied there was.

My apologies...my response was in the general sense and not directed to you personally

pbwalker wrote:

b322da wrote: No problem for me, either, pb. Never implied there was.

My apologies...my response was in the general sense and not directed to you personally

No offense taken, pb. We just agreed with each other.

Elmo