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philip964 wrote:My liberal friend is having field day with this.

2011 is not starting out well for the 2A.

Ask him exactly what law would have prevented this. How would said law be enforced?

philip964 wrote:My liberal friend is having field day with this.

2011 is not starting out well for the 2A.

Suggestion:

Try finding an article on a DUI accident with multiple fatalities and ask him if it isn't good reason to ban private possession of motor vehicles.

After all, if we could save only one life, it would be worth it - right?

Irresponsible exercise of any right or privilege is not prima facie evidence that the right or privilege should be abolished.

In the cases of both cars and guns, the benefits of private possession far outweigh the negative impacts that occur when people screw up.

Chrispy wrote:

flintknapper wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

Chrispy wrote:I just saw this on the local news.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/HPD-Woma ... 43634.html

The terminology police here will soon be berating you for not titling your post "negligent" discharge. Whatever... Tomato, tom-ah-to...(For fans of my current Avatar.... TOE-MAY-TOE). Clip, magazine... Verbal, oral...

Interestingly the story says the woman was shot in the "bu--". Not the most professional reference to the posterior. What's with people carrying these junk guns that go off when you drop 'em? My Raven and Jennings .25's, just have the CLIP fall out of them when I drop them. They never go off (so far).

The reason for that is because many folks casually dismiss the event... and apply the all encompassing definition of "accidental" : An unintended event!

The purpose of CORRECTLY calling an avoidable incident like this one a "Negligent Discharge" is to assign responsibility to the person(s) involved. It is an important distinction!

Any weapon not secured in such fashion that it will not drop from clothing/concealment is clearly negligence. It is THIS kind of nonsense that really gains traction with the anti's, and rightfully so.

I'm actually glad that you guys educated me on that term. I see people mention NDs all the time on this and other firearm forums. I knew what they were referring to but for some reason never put two and two together to figure out what the N stood for.

Negligent is definitely a better term for it. Guns don't just accidentally fire (or at least very very rarely). If you are in possession of a firearm and it goes off after it was dropped, in your pocket, or however it happened, you are the one that is responsible, or negligent.

Just to stir this up a little more, I'll relate the one accidental discharge I've experienced. I was shooting my 22 rifle at a range, something felt funky in the trigger pull and the round didn't go off. As I was arranging the rifle to troubleshoot and remove the round, it fired. However, I was very careful about making sure the rifle was pointed safely downrange the entire time, and the round wound up downrange in the berm. That's the one thing that made it an accidental discharge instead of an ND. And now I'll shut up.

ScottDLS wrote:Many, if not most, car accidents are the result of negligence (distracted, speeding, drunk, etc.). We still call them accidents unless someone intentionally hit someone.... Car negligents?

I tried but I just could not resist. DPS used this same argument about the cause to rename them car crashes. They even renamed the form to "CR-3" for "Crash Report".

And it has not had the effect of reducing the number of crashes or making people see them as avoidable.

I agree that the terminology is not as important as the communication. As long as we all know what we are talking about, the name of the incident is not really that important.

BTin wrote:Just out of curiousity, what could they charge this guy with?

I would not want to be the officer filing the report, but an argument could be made for a charge of deadly conduct. The firstpossible charge only requires reckless conduct, and carrying in that manner might be defined as reckless.

Here is the law:

Sec. 22.05. DEADLY CONDUCT.
(a) A person commits an offense if he recklessly engages in conduct that places another in imminent danger of serious bodily injury.
(b) A person commits an offense if he knowingly discharges a firearm at or in the direction of:
(1) one or more individuals; or
(2) a habitation, building, or vehicle and is reckless as to whether the habitation, building, or vehicle is occupied.
(c) Recklessness and danger are presumed if the actor knowingly pointed a firearm at or in the direction of another whether or not the actor believed the firearm to be loaded.
(d) For purposes of this section, "building," "habitation," and "vehicle" have the meanings assigned those terms by Section 30.01.
(e) An offense under Subsection (a) is a Class A misdemeanor. An offense under Subsection (b) is a felony of the third degree.

I heard from the lady that was shot daughter in-law on the radio this afternoon.....she is in ICU.
She was shot in a seated position....bullet went through her leg into her abdomen, not sure if she will pull through.

We CHL holders must carry responsibly.

As an owner of a NAA .22 mag, I wanted to chime in here.....assuming it was a Mini that discharged:

1st, they can make a great pocket pistol, but IMHO, the must be carried properly. I use a small leather holster designed to allow the gun to ride in my back pocket, unseen, muzzle down...trigger protected.

Second, and this is the tricky part.... The mini's have a "notch" so they can be carried without fear of the hammer striking the rim of the cartridge. Problem is, getting the hammer into that "notch" is not real easy, and requires you pull the hammer all the way back, pull the trigger and keep it pulled, while you turn the cylinder and guide the hammer into position. If you read the NAA message boards, some guys have actually discharged their pistol doing this. I never have, but man, talk about being uber careful that the hammer doesn't slip off your thumb and the muzzle is pointed away....

I share this because I can see how someone that a) didn't read the manual, or b) was uneasy going through the above exercise and thought "it'll never happen to me" could have something like this happen.

Like any weapon....if handled properly, it's a great little gun, and one of the MOST concealed carry pistols out there.

Funny thing....how many concealed handguns were carried in the US last Thursday night that didn't get dropped/go bang. One does, and man....... the shazbot hits the fan......

I wonder if he will lose his CHL.

PappaGun wrote:I wonder if he will lose his CHL.

He should. His right is null and void the same way a felon loses his 2nd amendment IMO.

My friend said he's in a lot of trouble financially and legally now.

srothstein wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:Many, if not most, car accidents are the result of negligence (distracted, speeding, drunk, etc.). We still call them accidents unless someone intentionally hit someone.... Car negligents?

I tried but I just could not resist. DPS used this same argument about the cause to rename them car crashes. They even renamed the form to "CR-3" for "Crash Report".

And it has not had the effect of reducing the number of crashes or making people see them as avoidable.

I agree that the terminology is not as important as the communication. As long as we all know what we are talking about, the name of the incident is not really that important.

A car crash describes what actually happened. Calling it an accident or negligent can assign a value judgement to the event.

Years ago, when rocket motors failed to function correctly or exploded, NASA and the DOD decided to call them "mishaps."

G192627 wrote:

PappaGun wrote:I wonder if he will lose his CHL.

He should. His right is null and void the same way a felon loses his 2nd amendment IMO.

Sorry, I can't agree. It was an accident and I'd sure like to know how the gun went off by falling to the ground. If it did, then it's a defective gun either in its design or manufacturing.

Driving is not a constitutionally protected activity, but we certainly don't revoke a driver's license because someone has an accident.

Chas.

This is in the comments section:

Channel 2 was making a big deal about the restaurant having a "no guns" sign. This person may be guilty of being a moron, of not keeping his weapon concealed and of not knowing how to safely carry a weapon. Gun safety - the weapon can't discharge if you don't keep a round in then pipe!! However, unless the restaurant has the state mandated 30.06 sign at the entrance, those "no guns" signs etc are meaningless. I am a CHL instructor and we teach students this as the law.

Please stop teaching CHL classes, sir. If you are telling your students not to carry a round in the chamber, you are putting their lives at risk.

mctowalot wrote:I'm so glad the lady is going to be ok. Both parties will probably become the butt of many jokes.

That's not at all certain. The bullet entered her hip and traveled through her abdomen bisecting her intestines. She's in ICU and has been operated on twice.

Excaliber wrote:I may be missing something, but I have a hard time understanding why someone would want to carry a two shot gun that is over six inches long, weighs 23 1/2 ounces unloaded, and doesn't have a trigger guard when one could carry a much safer and more capable firearm in the same size / weight envelope.

At over $600, price is clearly not a good reason either.

Keith B wrote:... The problem is these types of events will cause more folks to 'be in the know' and potentially cause them to research posting a 30.06.

From my mouth, you have taken the words.