As A CHLer - Should You Be A First Responder?

[texanron]

50 yards? Heck of a long shot with a hand gun. I'll have to try that next time I'm at the range. Rifle range that is.

Ain't no hill for a Stepper! Try it out and let me know how you do.

[rmr1923]

You sound like a pacifist...

You should know better than to confuse a moniker (screen name) with a philosophy.

You're right. I'm really more of a Cedar Park Realtor - but nobody knows where Cedar Park is

it's near Leander, isn't it? but then i guess that begs the question, where the heck is Leander?

[RPB]

You sound like a pacifist...

You should know better than to confuse a moniker (screen name) with a philosophy.

You're right. I'm really more of a Cedar Park Realtor - but nobody knows where Cedar Park is

it's near Leander, isn't it? but then i guess that begs the question, where the heck is Leander?

Close to Liberty Hill, which is where that DPS Trooper often sits near the corner of 29 and 183

[Dave2]

If I'm within 50 yards of the BG and have a clean line of sight I would take a shot to end the threat.

50 yards? Heck of a long shot with a hand gun. I'll have to try that next time I'm at the range. Rifle range that is.

You might be surprised. I don't consider myself to be an especially good shot, but I can usually get about 80-90% (really rough guess) of my shots in the dark circle from 30 yards at Targetmaster. Without getting out a ruler, I'd guess that it'd be a 10 round, 6"-8" group, with a flyer or two. At least on someone my size, if you were aiming for their COM the groups could easily be twice as big (which is convenient because 50 yards is almost twice the distance of 30 yards) and they'd still all hit.

Assuming you're as good of a shot when your life is in danger & you're under extreme stress as you are when you're calm & collected at the range, of course...
<-- That's a "quadruple check your backstop" smiley, not a "banghead" smiley, or at least it's as close as I could get on short notice.

[Charlie1947]

You're going to find yourself trying to determine who is the bad guy and who is wearing the white hat. I'm not in the judging business. I'm not a first responder, I'm not trained, nor paid to make those assessments. Now if someone makes a direct threat
against me or my family, I have no problem with that.

[AustinBoy]

This is one of the best threads I have ever read.

I agree with 98% of everything that was said.

I wish the "general public" would be required to read this thread.

I get tired of people thinking I have my CHL and carry so that I can rush in and be a hero.

Example: The UT Shooting. Was talking to guy at work and he said "This is why it should be legal to carry on campus!!"
I couldnt resist and asked what he meant. He said,"if students could carry on campus they could have gone after him and stopped him!"

I told him that I have my CHL and I carry. If I had been there (and it was legal to carry) and not been so close that my life was in immediate danger, I would have ran and called 911.
His jaw dropped.

I am NOT a cop. I have only one responsibility. To get home to my family safely.

That said, I am in the "it depends" camp. All depends on the circumstances. I am willing to help in the appropriate situation.

For the record, I am pro carry on campus. I just wanted to hear his logic.

Austinboy

[ZeeMan]

I am another proponent of "My responsibility is to return home to my family safely" What happens if I decide to be "Super CHL'r" and for some unforeseen reason die.......now my wife has to get a job, my kids go to daycare/after-school care and life insurance only goes so far.......is your CHL for your protection or the protection of everyone else out there?

Just my $0.02

[rdcrags]

I agree that the general public should read a thread like this. Yes, scenarios have been analyzed here before many times, but even though we try to preplan what we would do "if", it is not certain what I would do. TAM is right. "In the distance" is the key to answering the OP. But it is still good for us to think about these other "what ifs" periodically. BTW, 50 yards is too far for me, and I have 20-20 vision.

[LAYGO]

I haven't read the thread yet, but I will (it's bedtime!). I just wanted to chime in quickly on a couple of points. As a former state certified ECA (hours less than an EMT), there was an implied rule that if you saw an accident or someone in need of help, give it. It might've even been a law (been 20yrs) that if someone could prove you were licensed & didn't help, you could get in trouble . . . BUT . . . my point is wouldn't you want someone that could help you or your family to TRY to help? Or would you just want them to watch without action?

That philosophy alone is what makes me think I would help anyone.

Sheep/Sheep dogs/Wolves

What some are saying is, they're just a sheep with some sharp teeth. I see myself as a sheep dog.

[ZeeMan]

sheepdog, okay
Officer of the law, no

Think about it this way, reports have just gone in of a shooter at the mall, you decide to be a "first responder" and kill the "Shooter", officers arrive on scene and there is only one person alive holding a gun, people dont always remember in a high stress situation, in their minds you could possibly now be THE shooter........

[G.A. Heath]

A CHL does not obligate anyone to shoot/protect anyone or anything else. The laws that require you to give aid have provisions for not doing so when it is dangerous for you to act. Additionally the supreme court has ruled that LEOs have no obligation to protect anyone, so why would an ordinary citizen be required to do the same? If my family were in that situation and unable to defend themselves I would hope that someone else is there with the ability and tools, but I will not expect them to do so nor will I hold them accountable for not doing so.

As I have said before, if I find myself in a mass shooter situation and the shooter is an immediate threat to me then the shooter will get perforated. If they are not an immediate threat to me then I will seek a better (read safer) position where I can better protect myself if the shooter becomes an immediate threat.

--Signing off: One non-mall-ninja, non-LEO, non-Batman, CHL holder who is armed so that he can protect himself and those he cares about.

[mgood]

If someone who can't swim falls in the water, will I jump in to save them from drowning? Yes.
Might I drown? Possible, panicked people have been known to pull would-be rescuers under with them. But I've always been a pretty good swimmer and once upon a time I was trained in such life-saving techniques (Boy Scouts). I'll take my chances and go in to get him.

If someone in the water is being attacked by sharks, am I going to jump in to try to save them? Heck no! I may try to reach them with a pole or something they can grab on to. But otherwise I'm going to sit in the boat and say "Aw, that's too bad. Sure wish there was something we could do for him."

The first time a CHL is on the news being asked why he didn't stop the massacre and answers "My CHL is not a Batman license. I'm not a cop. My gun is to protect me and my loved ones." He's going to come off looking like a coward to people who don't know any better (most people out there).

So, what is the risk to yourself?
What is the risk to your family or friends who are with you?
What is the risk to other innocent bystanders? (Is shooting at and possibly missing an active shooter, possibly even hitting an innocent, really putting innocents in any more danger than just standing by and letting some madman blast away with impunity? What if you accidently injure or kill one other person before you get the shooter, but in getting the shooter, possibly save 20 or 30 others? Good trade if you can look at it dispassionately, but you're still likely to be in a heap of trouble.)
What are the chances of success?
Those all have to be taken into consideration on a case by case basis before you can decide whether or not you should jump in this fight.
If you have a chance to leave and get out of danger, that's probably the best advice. But most of us are uncomfortable with the idea of seeking safety while abandoning others.

[Big Tuna]

The first time a CHL is on the news being asked why he didn't stop the massacre and answers

If he answers, he's an idiot. Talking to the press after a critical incident is more dangerous than talking to the cops.

[speedsix]

The first time a CHL is on the news being asked why he didn't stop the massacre and answers

If he answers, he's an idiot. Talking to the press after a critical incident is more dangerous than talking to the cops.

...talking to the press ANYTIME is dangerous...great point...

[LAYGO]

Most importantly, ask yourself if the reaction you're contemplating will do more harm than good and if risking your life is important enough to justifiy the possiblity of your wife and children burying you.

This. As I read the OP more, I would not go out of my way to get involved, but would be definitely be "It Depends".

It all comes down to the amount of risk you're willing to subject you, your family/loved ones too.