30.06 Sign

[speedsix]

...(couldn't find the emoticon for trembling in my shoes...) guess I'll just have to find out...

[sugar land dave]

As we all know the law is broadly interpreted. It can be read to the letter and followed that way or it can also be interpreted as to what the intent was. Don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about it's done all the time. When it come's to the CHL posting's yes, it's very clear as to the way the sign is supposed to be but a judge is not always going to take that verbatim.

There is this thing called substantial compliance. compliance with the substantial or essential requirements of something (as a statute or contract) that satisfies its purpose or objective even though its formal requirements are not complied with.

If a sign is 90% compliant. Then it will possibly meet a judges standard for substantial compliance regardless of what all the people running around here looking for larger letters or contrasting background might say. If that happens you can get in trouble.

For the record I'm married to an attorney, I know have the attorneys in the larger firms in Dallas and Tarrant county and I've had this discussion w/defense attorneys that used to work for the Dallas DA and they are all in agreement. It REALLY depends on the judge you get and how they want to take your case.

No, you can appeal all the way up the line and get a ruling on it that way but do you really want to take that chance? Gun buster signs are a non issue. 30.06 signs can be a problem.

So as bad as some of you might not like to hear it. You MIGHT beat the rap but not the ride or you might not beat either.

Thanks for that, but I choose to believe that when the law sets some standards and specifically say that they are the MINIMUM, that judges will be smart enough to know the meaning of the word. I also choose to think that the overwhelming majority of LEO's and DA's will give you an opportunity to leave the premises if the situation is questionable. I think statistics back up that belief. I believe that the small chance that I will need to defend myself is greater than that chance that law professionals will misinterpret and disregard the actual written law.

[WildBill]

Post Deleted ...

[wgoforth]

All this being said... If everything abot the 30.06 sign is correct, but it's 3/4 of an inch high rather than 1".... THAT I might not push. Esp knowing what county I am in...

[WildBill]

All this being said... If everything abot the 30.06 sign is correct, but it's 3/4 of an inch high rather than 1".... THAT I might not push. Esp knowing what county I am in...

Since I don't carry around a ruler with me, it would be hard to tell so I probably wouldn't carry either.

[wgoforth]

All this being said... If everything abot the 30.06 sign is correct, but it's 3/4 of an inch high rather than 1".... THAT I might not push. Esp knowing what county I am in...

Since I don't carry around a ruler with me, it would be hard to tell so I probably wouldn't carry either.

There is some kind of formula for using a dollar bill to measure one inch... anyone remember that?

[speedsix]

http://www.chacha.com/question/how-do-y ... ut-a-ruler" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[stealthfightrf17]

I thank you all for your responses to me question. You have giving me a great deal to think about to make a decision of what I will do.

[WildBill]

I thank you all for your responses to me question. You have giving me a great deal to think about to make a decision of what I will do.

Maybe too much to think about.

[stealthfightrf17]

There can never be to much to think about. As my instructer said decessions in a situation need to be thought about before they come up. You will never have an exact situation completly thought out, but decideing in basic scenerious befor they happen will allow you to make a better decission

[WildBill]

There can never be to much to think about. As my instructer said decessions in a situation need to be thought about before they come up. You will never have an exact situation completly thought out, but decideing in basic scenerious befor they happen will allow you to make a better decission

That is excellent advice from your instructor.

[pcgizzmo]

As we all know the law is broadly interpreted. It can be read to the letter and followed that way or it can also be interpreted as to what the intent was. Don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about it's done all the time. When it come's to the CHL posting's yes, it's very clear as to the way the sign is supposed to be but a judge is not always going to take that verbatim.

There is this thing called substantial compliance. compliance with the substantial or essential requirements of something (as a statute or contract) that satisfies its purpose or objective even though its formal requirements are not complied with.

If a sign is 90% compliant. Then it will possibly meet a judges standard for substantial compliance regardless of what all the people running around here looking for larger letters or contrasting background might say. If that happens you can get in trouble.

For the record I'm married to an attorney, I know have the attorneys in the larger firms in Dallas and Tarrant county and I've had this discussion w/defense attorneys that used to work for the Dallas DA and they are all in agreement. It REALLY depends on the judge you get and how they want to take your case.

No, you can appeal all the way up the line and get a ruling on it that way but do you really want to take that chance? Gun buster signs are a non issue. 30.06 signs can be a problem.

So as bad as some of you might not like to hear it. You MIGHT beat the rap but not the ride or you might not beat either.

Thanks for that, but I choose to believe that when the law sets some standards and specifically say that they are the MINIMUM, that judges will be smart enough to know the meaning of the word. I also choose to think that the overwhelming majority of LEO's and DA's will give you an opportunity to leave the premises if the situation is questionable. I think statistics back up that belief. I believe that the small chance that I will need to defend myself is greater than that chance that law professionals will misinterpret and disregard the actual written law.

Obviously if you walk in and the situation is questionable and you leave then I'd like to think you would be given the benefit of the doubt but I think there are those here that believe if the sign isn't EXACTLY the way the law say's it should be then they will be exonerated and I don't think that's correct. Statistically I don't think we have anything to draw a conclusion with. There are just not that many cases where people have ignored a 30.06 sign and or ignored a sign that's only half correct to find out.

The actual written law is disregarded on a daily basis. Appeals courts are full of appeals for people that feel the law didn't decide correctly. Judges are human, have human emotions, have their own political beliefs and event's in their lives that affect their rulings. It's not supposed to be that way but if you think it's not then your fooling yourself. Ask yourself why Hollywood stars get many slaps on the wrist but well meaning citizens that do the same things the stars do get thrown under the bus.

[wgoforth]

As we all know the law is broadly interpreted. It can be read to the letter and followed that way or it can also be interpreted as to what the intent was. Don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about it's done all the time. When it come's to the CHL posting's yes, it's very clear as to the way the sign is supposed to be but a judge is not always going to take that verbatim.

There is this thing called substantial compliance. compliance with the substantial or essential requirements of something (as a statute or contract) that satisfies its purpose or objective even though its formal requirements are not complied with.

If a sign is 90% compliant. Then it will possibly meet a judges standard for substantial compliance regardless of what all the people running around here looking for larger letters or contrasting background might say. If that happens you can get in trouble.

For the record I'm married to an attorney, I know have the attorneys in the larger firms in Dallas and Tarrant county and I've had this discussion w/defense attorneys that used to work for the Dallas DA and they are all in agreement. It REALLY depends on the judge you get and how they want to take your case.

No, you can appeal all the way up the line and get a ruling on it that way but do you really want to take that chance? Gun buster signs are a non issue. 30.06 signs can be a problem.

So as bad as some of you might not like to hear it. You MIGHT beat the rap but not the ride or you might not beat either.

Thanks for that, but I choose to believe that when the law sets some standards and specifically say that they are the MINIMUM, that judges will be smart enough to know the meaning of the word. I also choose to think that the overwhelming majority of LEO's and DA's will give you an opportunity to leave the premises if the situation is questionable. I think statistics back up that belief. I believe that the small chance that I will need to defend myself is greater than that chance that law professionals will misinterpret and disregard the actual written law.

Obviously if you walk in and the situation is questionable and you leave then I'd like to think you would be given the benefit of the doubt but I think there are those here that believe if the sign isn't EXACTLY the way the law say's it should be then they will be exonerated and I don't think that's correct. Statistically I don't think we have anything to draw a conclusion with. There are just not that many cases where people have ignored a 30.06 sign and or ignored a sign that's only half correct to find out. The actual written law is disregarded on a daily basis. Appeals courts are full of appeals for people that feel the law didn't decide correctly. Judges are human, have human emotions, have their own political beliefs and event's in their lives that affect their rulings. It's not supposed to be that way but if you think it's not then your fooling yourself. Ask yourself why Hollywood stars get many slaps on the wrist but well meaning citizens that do the same things the stars do get thrown under the bus.

A couple of points here... to say there are not that many cases where people ignored a sign that is half correct... don't you mean ignored and CAUGHT? I know that those signs are ignored daily, and CHL instructors tell you that you may. If your CAUGHT, then you should be checking your concealment method. Second, on saying that we are in error for saying that the sign must be EXACTLY as the law says.... Read again PC 30.06, the business MUST have a sign IDENTICAL to the following wording. As a preacher, I hear this regularly as folks say "I know the Bible says this, but don't think it really means that." In both cases, it says what it says... we are not the lawmaker. If they didn't want it to mean "identical" they could have said otherwise. And in both cases, folks tend to say "I don't think" rather than "What saith the law." Everyone ought to take a class in Hermeneutics.... the science of interpreting what is written.

[WildBill]

Statistically I don't think we have anything to draw a conclusion with.

I think we do. The DPS statistics show that there are very few CHL holders who are convicted for this offense. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... vrates.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sugar land dave]

What if the state was to allow someone to put up a stop sign in their yard by the street if it meets state guidelines. I see one, but it is only half of the size I am expecting to see and it is green. Should I stop? The property owner has made HIS wishes clear. Should I or he expect the state to enforce his stop sign?

It is Texas and, sure the high sheriff can always arrest you, but is it likely if you are politely following the letter of the law and someone else is not?

When I see a badly wrinkled 30.06 printed on a 8 1/2 by 11 inch copy paper with 1/4 inch letters in Times Roman font should I assume that the big business that can afford a professional sign put it up, or is it possible an anti-gun person snuck it up in someone's business?

If there is a 30.06 meeting the minimums or it is even really close to doing so, I will honor it. Something not meeting the minimums leaves me unsure of who posted it. Since they did not post a professional sign with proper specs as defined by law, how can I be sure of their intent?