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I had thought there was a rather onerous TSA procedure for flying without an ID. I looked it up a while back because I was curious but I don't remember the particulars.

dicion wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Didn't work for my son at the Austin airport when he forgot his ID two months ago. We had to make a four hour round-trip drive home and he had to board a later flight (and I had asked him before we left if he had his ID, and he said he did, apparently without really checking).

But was that at the Ticket Counter? or Security?

I can see them saying no at the ticket counter to checking bags without it.
But if it was security, well at least we know they're doing it.

He didn't get to security because the airline wouldn't issue him a boarding pass.

SQLGeek wrote:I had thought there was a rather onerous TSA procedure for flying without an ID. I looked it up a while back because I was curious but I don't remember the particulars.

I couldn't remember the particulars either, so I looked them up again. It sounds like they really do have thought police now. Link

We are all frogs in a pot of water about to boil unless something changes. Sadly I'm not sure we will ever realize we are being cooked.

Winchster wrote:We are all frogs in a pot of water about to boil unless something changes. Sadly I'm not sure we will ever realize we are being cooked.

Some of us will.

Others will feel all warm and fuzzy inside until the last minute before it boils over on them. By then it'll be too late.

But will there be enough of us to implement the changes necessary to get back to freedom. T'is the question.

Winchster wrote:But will there be enough of us left to implement the changes necessary to get back to freedom. T'is the question.

Fixed it for ya.

Remember, there have been almost three generations grow up since the 50's, when Constitutional Rights were taken as gospel. Over that time, the paternalism (and behavioral control) of government has become an everyday experience, while individual responsibility has been truly forgotten by most. Those of us who can enjoy the freedom and fulfillment from taking care of ourselves (and are willing), must remember to feel truly blessed.

Regarding flying without an ID. I recently flew to Houston Hobby and inadvertently left my drivers license in the box at my departure airport. I didn't discover this fact until I was at the rental car place in Houston. Naturally I was concerned about my return flight interaction with TSA. I would have a valid boarding pass, but the only other photo ID I had was my Texas CHL. I accessed the TSA website which states you need a valid federal or state issued photo ID so I would be in compliance with TSA regulations when I went through security. Apparently not...

Upon entering security screening at Hobby I provided my boarding pass and CHL. I was advised they had been told not to accept these. I advised them they were in violation of their own regulations which stated a state or Federal photo ID was the only thing required. I also advised them that a drivers license of state ID did not require fingerprinting and a background investigation. To this I got a blank stare and the repeated we were told thing. At this point I told them in any event I need to board the aircraft. After a bit of wondering about they got someone assigned to me who, after going through nude photo machine my carry-on (didn't have anything else) was completely disassembled and searched, but eventually I was allowed to proceed.

What I found most disturbing is that someone was allowed with a verbal order to override the printed regulations under which they were operating. Imagine who this would play out if other law enforcement agencies were allowed to selectively define the law. On the positive side, the individuals I was in contact with at TSA in Houston were quite pleasant and did deal with the situation in a fairly expedient manner.

The experience with TSA at my destination was good. I had called from Houston and they advised they did have my DL and I was able to pick it up when I arrived. I think the bottom line here is the big problem with TSA are not the TSA Officers but the management of the organization.

Pyrat wrote:Imagine who this would play out if other law enforcement agencies were allowed to selectively define the law.

What do you mean, they do it all the time? For instance, all over the country, various LEOs tell photographers that taking this or that photograph is illegal under the Patriot Act --when it isn't. Sometimes they make people delete their photos (which they have no power to do under law and is potentially illegal). If you attempt to correct their ignorance of the law you risk being arrested or having your equipment confiscated --and why should a LEO believe you anyway? Realistically you can't expect every LEO to know every law ---which isn't to say that TSA screeners shouldn't know what ID is acceptable.

This is probably just my beef, but if we mess up in our knowledge of the law we are told "Ignorance of the law--no matter how complex or nuanced the law is--is not an excuse" and we are thrown in the slammer. When a LEO or a government agent messes up the law it is "my bad--sorry about he 3K of legal fees." If you are going to be enforcing the laws, you really should know them better than to tell anyone that taking a pic of them is a violation of the law. If you are going to be in charge of airport security you ought to know your own regulations for ID.

I flew yesterday on the 4th. It was in a short line to go through security (people don't fly on the actual holiday) naturally the only person in line in front of me did not have a photo ID.

He was a Euro American, looked to be about 28, dressed like about any 28 year old on holiday. He fumbles through his pockets, pulls out old receipts some folded money, finally finds his boarding pass in a manila folder he was carrying in his carry on, but can't find his photo ID. I switch to the other short line to avoid all the delay. He is finally told he cannot fly and he leaves.

Wow, I was impressed, no ID, could not fly, simple as that.

Now he must have been either been drunk, stoned, or a some kind of test subject, seeing if the TSA was doing their job.

Are there really 28 year old males who show up to fly with no ID, no bill fold, no credit cards, and seem really clueless. But for sure they are always in line in front of me no matter what.

And I was picked again for the nuke radiation scan.

VMI77 wrote:Realistically you can't expect every LEO to know every law

I don't expect omniscience, but a LEO who is a decent human being would know the laws they're enforcing. If they're not sure, they would verify the law before taking action, assuming no immediate risk to life or limb. Your photograph scenario is a good example.

On the other hand, evil men do as they please, with no concern for the law or rights of others.

loadedliberal wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/26/florid ... ?hpt=hp_t1

A 95 year old woman was forced to remove her adult diaper by TSA agents. Same on the TSA agents involved.

This is very bad.

I traveled as the primary care giver for a 0-3 year old for 3 years.

Why did she not have another diaper?

It's officially illegal to not let your kids get molested for their own safety.

Dave2 wrote:It's officially illegal to not let your kids get molested for their own safety.

Yeah, I was going to post that when I saw this thread.

Crazy. We tell our kids to not let strangers touch them, then...???