TexasCHLforum.com

VMI77 wrote: ....I agree. I haven't crossed any national borders, I'm going from my parents home to my home, both in the State of Texas, and in a free country I don't expect to be stopped at a police checkpoint. I guess I'm just too old and paid too much attention in class when I was a youngster. They used to teach us that things like internal checkpoints were hallmarks of police states; so when I get stopped at an internal checkpoint almost 100 miles from the border it brings back what I was taught in public school. When the checkpoint is this far from the Mexican border the "border control" stuff is just a pretext for general all around searches....

I haven't been through one here in Texas but many other States set up sobriety checkpoints where they stop every vehicle on certain roads. They claim that they are just checking for alcohol use but if they determine that you are a candidate for further investigation, your car is searched or at least that was the process in Ohio when I went through the last one. After a couple of minutes of discussion, they gave me a pamphlet and waved me through. They had 4 cars off to the side and were going through the whole routine with them. It was around 11pm.

chasfm11 wrote:

VMI77 wrote: ....I agree. I haven't crossed any national borders, I'm going from my parents home to my home, both in the State of Texas, and in a free country I don't expect to be stopped at a police checkpoint. I guess I'm just too old and paid too much attention in class when I was a youngster. They used to teach us that things like internal checkpoints were hallmarks of police states; so when I get stopped at an internal checkpoint almost 100 miles from the border it brings back what I was taught in public school. When the checkpoint is this far from the Mexican border the "border control" stuff is just a pretext for general all around searches....

I haven't been through one here in Texas but many other States set up sobriety checkpoints where they stop every vehicle on certain roads. They claim that they are just checking for alcohol use but if they determine that you are a candidate for further investigation, your car is searched or at least that was the process in Ohio when I went through the last one. After a couple of minutes of discussion, they gave me a pamphlet and waved me through. They had 4 cars off to the side and were going through the whole routine with them. It was around 11pm.

One element of liberty is being able to move about freely without having to justify yourself to authority, be detained, or to be lectured to --in other words, being left alone. Between those who think freedom means being like them, and those who want the government to be their mommy and daddy and wipe their runny noses, make sure they eat right, wear their galoshes when it's raining, and protect them from boogie men, those who want a free America are part of a dwindling minority. I think a solid majority of Americans would actually welcome a Nanny state, if not a Police state. The Brits seem to love their Nanny state.

[quote="VMI77"]One element of liberty is being able to move about freely without having to justify yourself to authority, be detained, or to be lectured to --in other words, being left alone./quote]
Ihre Papiere, bitte!

tacticool wrote:

VMI77 wrote:One element of liberty is being able to move about freely without having to justify yourself to authority, be detained, or to be lectured to --in other words, being left alone./quote]
Ihre Papiere, bitte!

I think some people actually feel important when they're asked to show their papers --they find validation in the act. It's a tribal instinct I think, and let's them feel like they're an "approved" member of the tribe.

jocat54 wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

steveincowtown wrote: ...I guess the trouble I have is what right does a BP agent have to stop someone who is not at the border?

If you have a problem with the reach of the BP, you'll really get your knickers in a knot if you ever experience the authority of a Fire Chief or a Game Warden. BTW, IANAL

Not sure about the Fire Chief but a Game Warden has ALOT of authority, I'm guessing more than most any other LEO.

They probably get paid less than most LE, I wouldnt want to cath him on a bad day, lol.

smtimelevi wrote:

jocat54 wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

steveincowtown wrote: ...I guess the trouble I have is what right does a BP agent have to stop someone who is not at the border?

If you have a problem with the reach of the BP, you'll really get your knickers in a knot if you ever experience the authority of a Fire Chief or a Game Warden. BTW, IANAL

Not sure about the Fire Chief but a Game Warden has ALOT of authority, I'm guessing more than most any other LEO.

They probably get paid less than most LE, I wouldnt want to cath him on a bad day, lol.

Might search your car without a warrant...

If I wasnt hunting or fishing or didnt have anything to do with wildlife in my vehicle I dont think he would have reason to search it. Even if I did I would need to commit a game violation first. The Dept of Parks and Wildlife may have great jurisdiction but their scope stops at Parks and Wildlife. I think the Patriot Act only usurped the 4th Amendment for homeland security agencies.

smtimelevi wrote:If I wasnt hunting or fishing or didnt have anything to do with wildlife in my vehicle I dont think he would have reason to search it. Even if I did I would need to commit a game violation first. The Dept of Parks and Wildlife may have great jurisdiction but their scope stops at Parks and Wildlife. I think the Patriot Act only usurped the 4th Amendment for homeland security agencies.

How do they know you don't have anything to do with wildlife in your vehicle until they look.

paulhailes wrote:

smtimelevi wrote:If I wasnt hunting or fishing or didnt have anything to do with wildlife in my vehicle I dont think he would have reason to search it. Even if I did I would need to commit a game violation first. The Dept of Parks and Wildlife may have great jurisdiction but their scope stops at Parks and Wildlife. I think the Patriot Act only usurped the 4th Amendment for homeland security agencies.

How do they know you don't have anything to do with wildlife in your vehicle until they look.

Dont know, wouldnt care. It's parks and wildlife not the FBI. To me that would be like a security gaurd trying to cuff me. I'd just tell him to blow off and call the real cops if it's that big a deal.

smtimelevi wrote:

paulhailes wrote:

smtimelevi wrote:If I wasnt hunting or fishing or didnt have anything to do with wildlife in my vehicle I dont think he would have reason to search it. Even if I did I would need to commit a game violation first. The Dept of Parks and Wildlife may have great jurisdiction but their scope stops at Parks and Wildlife. I think the Patriot Act only usurped the 4th Amendment for homeland security agencies.

How do they know you don't have anything to do with wildlife in your vehicle until they look.

Dont know, wouldnt care. It's parks and wildlife not the FBI. To me that would be like a security gaurd trying to cuff me. I'd just tell him to blow off and call the real cops if it's that big a deal.

Let me know how it goes when you call the police on the Game Warden.

Texas Parks and Wildlife Code:

Sec. 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.
(b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under Subsection (a) of this section.
(c) In this section "wildlife resource" means an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or other aquatic life the taking or possession of which is regulated in any manner by this code.

Sounds to me like he could say he had reasonable suspicion.

Just be careful asking for a warrant if a LEO wants to search your car. He might not like it...

http://www.viddler.com/explore/thechive/videos/658/
**WARNING! Profane Language from the LEO**

jocat54 wrote:Texas Parks and Wildlife Code:

Sec. 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.
(b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under Subsection (a) of this section.
(c) In this section "wildlife resource" means an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or other aquatic life the taking or possession of which is regulated in any manner by this code.

Sounds to me like he could say he had reasonable suspicion.

He would have to be able to articulate that suspicion just like any other law enforcement in the state. Game wardens can not "Just search your stuff without a warrant or probable cause."

smtimelevi wrote:The Dept of Parks and Wildlife may have great jurisdiction but their scope stops at Parks and Wildlife.

This is a very common error, but in Texas it is an error. Game wardens are full peace officers with the same authority to investigate and arrest for any violation of the laws as any other peace officer. So are school district officers, college officers, park police, airport police, water police, dental board investigators, and so on. Texas has a list of more than 35 different types of peace officers contained in Article 2.12 of the Code of Criminal Procedure. With regards to authority to enforce the law, there are very few restrictions or differences between the various types. City and county officers (of certain classes) may not write traffic tickets outside of their county, and Game wardens have the extra search authority that was already posted. I cannot think of any other differences though there may be some. I would bet they are as minor as these if they do exist.

srothstein wrote:

smtimelevi wrote:The Dept of Parks and Wildlife may have great jurisdiction but their scope stops at Parks and Wildlife.

This is a very common error, but in Texas it is an error. Game wardens are full peace officers with the same authority to investigate and arrest for any violation of the laws as any other peace officer. So are school district officers, college officers, park police, airport police, water police, dental board investigators, and so on. Texas has a list of more than 35 different types of peace officers contained in Article 2.12 of the Code of Criminal Procedure. With regards to authority to enforce the law, there are very few restrictions or differences between the various types. City and county officers (of certain classes) may not write traffic tickets outside of their county, and Game wardens have the extra search authority that was already posted. I cannot think of any other differences though there may be some. I would bet they are as minor as these if they do exist.

Geez, can you imagine getting arrested by a Dental Board Investigator? I think I might have to make up a story for retelling purposes. Kinda like how "I was an idiot and fell off my bike" became, "I was attacked by four ninjas who tried to kill me with flaming nunchuks!! Luckily, I was able to hurl myself through the sidewalk and play dead until they got bored and left."