Name this holster (no really...It needs a good name)

[Skiprr]

California High Noon

That setup looks good for states where you can carry an unloaded gun. Wear it at 12 o clock with an empty gun and a full mag. Draw both at the same time and speedload on the draw.

You get the award!

I've never figured out the need for holsters like this. Sorry.

If you're carryin' a gun on one side, what's the problem with carryin' a spare mag on the other side?

...esplain, please...why not???

Cross-draw isn't the best idea...whether it's of a gun or of a spare mag. In a fight, anytime you pin your own arm across your body--or place yourself in an armlock position as in small-of-back carry--you're compromising your ability to respond to and defend a close-quarters assault.

Remember, the need to use a handgun outside your home, statistically, is: 3 to 6 feet, 47%; contact to 3 feet, 34%. Over 81% of the time, you will be at close quarters, able to reach out and touch your assailant with one step...or he you.

A 90-degree-angle removal of a mag sitting at a 2:30 position or farther (for a right-hander) ain't gonna be easy or efficient for anybody. Even if the shooter is slim and flexible, at the top of that pull his offhand is going to be highly attenuated and near his armpit. Then he has to do an offhand contortion, elbow up in the air first, to get the mag into the gun.

Yeah, it won't be an issue if you've fired and run behind cover and have time to reload unimpeded. But what if there's no cover? What if there are multiple assailants? Which seems to be more the norm these days...

(Note to the general readership because speedsix well knows this: cover is a barrier that will protect you from incoming fire; concealment is a disguising facade that hides you, but is penetrable by fire.)

My philosophy is: Train to be as efficient as possible. The least wasted motion wins the day.

This holster would be a great idea for offside carry of a BUG with a spare magazine for the primary gun. IMHO.

[apostate]

This holster would be a great idea for offside carry of a BUG with a spare magazine for the primary gun. IMHO.

Traditional reload + NY reload.

[Thomas]

Remember, the need to use a handgun outside your home, statistically, is: 3 to 6 feet, 47%; contact to 3 feet, 34%. Over 81% of the time, you will be at close quarters, able to reach out and touch your assailant with one step...or he you.

Source please? It's a good statistic, but before I share it, I would like a more concrete source.

Thanks

[Skiprr]

Remember, the need to use a handgun outside your home, statistically, is: 3 to 6 feet, 47%; contact to 3 feet, 34%. Over 81% of the time, you will be at close quarters, able to reach out and touch your assailant with one step...or he you.

Source please? It's a good statistic, but before I share it, I would like a more concrete source.

Thanks

Designated Department Order SOP 9 by the New York City Police Department. It is a 30-year study and one of--if not the--largest of its kind. The study included over 6,000 individual shooting cases.

[speedsix]

...agree that wasted motion needs to be cut out, but I(not slim) have no trouble reaching to 2:30 or 3 with my left hand...thumb inside and fingers outside and pulling the mag out...rolling my wrist over and, having dropped the empty while gun is still in right hand...shoving the mag up into the gun and then laying the gun over and pulling the slide to chamber...my hand's not up in my armpit nor does it move more than 6" from grasp point...that's quicker and easier than to shift the gun to the left hand, pull the mag with the right hand and load the gun...then shift back...I would reverse the mag in the holster...bullet tips backwards...so when I roll it over it's right to go...I don't need to stick my elbow up in the air or any other wierd thing...and if I'm close enough that he could pin my arm across my chest...I'm going for a BUG anyways...no time to reload the primary...in the most extreme circumstance, one could hold a light or hold onto something with the left hand...re-holster, and change mags while holstered...then draw and work the slide either with the weak hand or Israeli style down the pantsleg...I think the odds of that would be over 1000-1...(and no, I can't cite the study)...but it would be possible...I like the mag/gun together in the holster for on/off of the rig...I do carry a separate mag pouch...worn where either hand can get to it...I carry several mags...

[Skiprr]

...agree that wasted motion needs to be cut out, but I(not slim) have no trouble reaching to 2:30 or 3 with my left hand...thumb inside and fingers outside and pulling the mag out...rolling my wrist over and, having dropped the empty while gun is still in right hand...shoving the mag up into the gun and then laying the gun over and pulling the slide to chamber...my hand's not up in my armpit nor does it move more than 6" from grasp point...that's quicker and easier than to shift the gun to the left hand, pull the mag with the right hand and load the gun...then shift back...I would reverse the mag in the holster...bullet tips backwards...so when I roll it over it's right to go...I don't need to stick my elbow up in the air or any other wierd thing...and if I'm close enough that he could pin my arm across my chest...I'm going for a BUG anyways...no time to reload the primary...in the most extreme circumstance, one could hold a light or hold onto something with the left hand...re-holster, and change mags while holstered...then draw and work the slide either with the weak hand or Israeli style down the pantsleg...I think the odds of that would be over 1000-1...(and no, I can't cite the study)...but it would be possible...I like the mag/gun together in the holster for on/off of the rig...I do carry a separate mag pouch...worn where either hand can get to it...I carry several mags...

And if you have practiced hundreds of hours pulling your extra mag from nine o'clock rather than three o'clock? Which is what is commonly taught. All that "muscle memory" out the window?

To my knowledge, nobody teaches--not even in the PD--a spare-mag draw from across the strong side.

The only way you can get a mag out of the offhand side at a 90-degree angle without placing your "elbow up in the air or any other wierd thing" is if you have your wrist flexed (attenuated) to its maximum. Also not a good thing.

"...and if I'm close enough that he could pin my arm across my chest...I'm going for a BUG anyways."

Point is, if he's controlling your offhand arm across your chest, you're already in his OODA Loop. You won't have time to go for a BUG.

[speedsix]

...

...agree that wasted motion needs to be cut out, but I(not slim) have no trouble reaching to 2:30 or 3 with my left hand...thumb inside and fingers outside and pulling the mag out...rolling my wrist over and, having dropped the empty while gun is still in right hand...shoving the mag up into the gun and then laying the gun over and pulling the slide to chamber...my hand's not up in my armpit nor does it move more than 6" from grasp point...that's quicker and easier than to shift the gun to the left hand, pull the mag with the right hand and load the gun...then shift back...I would reverse the mag in the holster...bullet tips backwards...so when I roll it over it's right to go...I don't need to stick my elbow up in the air or any other wierd thing...and if I'm close enough that he could pin my arm across my chest...I'm going for a BUG anyways...no time to reload the primary...in the most extreme circumstance, one could hold a light or hold onto something with the left hand...re-holster, and change mags while holstered...then draw and work the slide either with the weak hand or Israeli style down the pantsleg...I think the odds of that would be over 1000-1...(and no, I can't cite the study)...but it would be possible...I like the mag/gun together in the holster for on/off of the rig...I do carry a separate mag pouch...worn where either hand can get to it...I carry several mags...

And if you have practiced hundreds of hours pulling your extra mag from nine o'clock rather than three o'clock? Which is what is commonly taught. All that "muscle memory" out the window?

[... that's your choice...and few have had/done that much training...maybe the LEOs trained with pistols...the fact that it's different doesn't mean that it's bad...]

To my knowledge, nobody teaches--not even in the PD--a spare-mag draw from across the strong side....

[so what??? it's doable, and without the gymnastics you posted, and several holster makers are selling that style , and have been for 20 years that I know of, so it must not be too difficult...if a PD issued that rig, they'd have no problem training for its use...]

The only way you can get a mag out of the offhand side at a 90-degree angle without placing your "elbow up in the air or any other wierd thing" is if you have your wrist flexed (attenuated) to its maximum. Also not a good thing.

[...this is just not so...reach across your belly, thumb inside the mag, fingers outside...palm down...pull it up...rotate the wrist to palm up, place and seat the mag in the weapon, roll the gun and rack the slide to chamber...I've done it as I've posted...I can do it sitting down...neither elbow went anywhere and my wrist wasn't unusually contorted...it's not that hard and I'm not double-jointed...you do need to reverse the mag in the holster as I said so that bullet tips point back till you roll your wrist over to insert it into the gun]

"...and if I'm close enough that he could pin my arm across my chest...I'm going for a BUG anyways."

Point is, if he's controlling your offhand arm across your chest, you're already in his OODA Loop. You won't have time to go for a BUG.

[...so why bring the pinning up in the first place? if he's controlling EITHER arm, you're going to be hard put to perform a reload...at least if both the gun and mag are on the same side, it's POSSIBLE to reload one-handed...though highly unlikely...]

(my replies in brackets...don't know how to put it all outside quoted mat'l...)
...we've got something different here...I've never worn this kind of holster, either...but different isn't wrong...and it's neither impossible or difficult...it's just different...some will like it...some won't...Chevy, Ford, or for the more intelligent....Dodge...

[Skiprr]

...so why bring the pinning up in the first place? if he's controlling EITHER arm, you're going to be hard put to perform a reload...at least if both the gun and mag are on the same side, it's POSSIBLE to reload one-handed...though highly unlikely...

Sigh...

The idea is to try hard as you can to not put yourself in a vulnerable position. Why carry something in a position that might do just that?

Just in case you want some background: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=46237" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. We're almost the same age. But my bet is that I have a whole whoompload more hand-to-hand experience than you do.

The point is that cross-draw anything ain't a good idea. At the distances CHL holders are most likely to encounter a threat, they should keep their supplies close to the hand that needs 'em.

[gigag04]

After thinking through the above scenario, I've actually begun wrapping myself in a steel mesh, wired up to a taser that has been reassembled inside of my shoe. If someone tries to pin or joint lock me, I just start tapping my toe, as if I'm dancing, and the perpetrator usually gives up right there.

[Skiprr]

After thinking through the above scenario, I've actually begun wrapping myself in a steel mesh, wired up to a taser that has been reassembled inside of my shoe. If someone tries to pin or joint lock me, I just start tapping my toe, as if I'm dancing, and the perpetrator usually gives up right there.

[speedsix]

...so why bring the pinning up in the first place? if he's controlling EITHER arm, you're going to be hard put to perform a reload...at least if both the gun and mag are on the same side, it's POSSIBLE to reload one-handed...though highly unlikely...

Sigh...

The idea is to try hard as you can to not put yourself in a vulnerable position. Why carry something in a position that might do just that?

Just in case you want some background: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=46237" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. We're almost the same age. But my bet is that I have a whole whoompload more hand-to-hand experience than you do.

The point is that cross-draw anything ain't a good idea. At the distances CHL holders are most likely to encounter a threat, they should keep their supplies close to the hand that needs 'em.

...OK...so you're the big dog...and you've out-trained me and out-fought me and I've read all your credentials...you're a wunnerful pro...but no matter how you sigh and try to be condescending...the fact remains that your arguments on why this holster design is so bad don't fly with me...and your personal dislike for a crossdraw and such are just that...personal...and yours...you seem determined to cram down our/my throats why this holster or crossdraw are impossible/bad/foolish...but decades of users have found them to be just fine...same with crossdraw holsters/mag pouches...knives, or cellphones......your choices and your opinions aren't going to be universally accepted...even if you drink coffee with Chuck Norris...have confidence in yourself and your opinions...but respect the rights of others to disagree...your "whole whoompload more hand-to-hand experience than you do" comment tells me what's really going on here...
...I think the man's made a good holster and I think he oughta pick a name for it...and go sell thousands...
...

[HotLeadSolutions]

This holster would be a great idea for offside carry of a BUG with a spare magazine for the primary gun. IMHO.

This sounds like a great idea actually, but only if you are carrying your main weapon OTB. (Which I have a OTB holster in the works as we speak)

[mojo84]

So, have you settled on a name?

[HotLeadSolutions]

So, have you settled on a name?

I think I have.
My holster without the mag carrier is going to be called The Operator. The one with the mag holder will be The Dual Operator. They will be available in natural, brown or black. I am working on an OTB holster now....more on that later.

Thanks to everyone that offered up names for the holster. And also thanks go out to everyone that offered opinions...good bad or other. Your words did not fall on deaf ears.

[The Annoyed Man]

Burt.