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jimlongley wrote:IMO, the cop should be in jail.

IMO, he should not.

WildBill wrote:

jimlongley wrote:IMO, the cop should be in jail.

IMO, he should not.

I don't know that he should be in jail, but based on the video he acted illegally. Do you believe these illegal actions were crimes? If not, please elaborate. If so, what do you feel should be the consequences of his actions.

I know I stated earlier that he should be relieved of duty - but I would really like to hear your opinion.

jmra wrote:

WildBill wrote:

jimlongley wrote:IMO, the cop should be in jail.

IMO, he should not.

I don't know that he should be in jail, but based on the video he acted illegally. Do you believe these illegal actions were crimes? If not, please elaborate. If so, what do you feel should be the consequences of his actions.

I know I stated earlier that he should be relieved of duty - but I would really like to hear your opinion.

I don't necessarily think the officer should be in jail -- it's not like he shot somebodies dog! But I do think he should be in line for some remedial training regarding carry laws in his locality -- and perhaps a basic handgun safety course!

jmra wrote:

WildBill wrote:

jimlongley wrote:IMO, the cop should be in jail.

IMO, he should not.

I don't know that he should be in jail, but based on the video he acted illegally. Do you believe these illegal actions were crimes? If not, please elaborate. If so, what do you feel should be the consequences of his actions.

I know I stated earlier that he should be relieved of duty - but I would really like to hear your opinion.

What were the exact crimes committed and what are the penalties?

For example, what is exact crime was committed when the LEO asked for their ID without having probable cause? What is the prescribed punishment?

sjfcontrol wrote:I don't necessarily think the officer should be in jail -- it's not like he shot somebodies dog! But I do think he should be in line for some remedial training regarding carry laws in his locality -- and perhaps a basic handgun safety course!

I don't think open carry advocates are usually pushing to get an officer fired or arrested -- it is far more effective to push for effective training for the entire force.

WildBill wrote:

jmra wrote:

WildBill wrote:

jimlongley wrote:IMO, the cop should be in jail.

IMO, he should not.

I don't know that he should be in jail, but based on the video he acted illegally. Do you believe these illegal actions were crimes? If not, please elaborate. If so, what do you feel should be the consequences of his actions.

I know I stated earlier that he should be relieved of duty - but I would really like to hear your opinion.

What were the exact crimes committed and what are the penalties?

For example, what is exact crime was committed when the LEO asked for their ID without having probable cause? What is the prescribed punishment?

Well, if Rosa Parks (our OC friend) is correct the courts have ruled that the police cannot do what the officer did. If violating the court ruling is not a crime then the court ruling means absolutely nothing and the police can continue to do as they please. I would hope that an officer acting in direct violation of the courts interpretation of the law would be held accountable by the law.

jmra wrote:

WildBill wrote:

jmra wrote:

WildBill wrote:

jimlongley wrote:IMO, the cop should be in jail.

IMO, he should not.

I don't know that he should be in jail, but based on the video he acted illegally. Do you believe these illegal actions were crimes? If not, please elaborate. If so, what do you feel should be the consequences of his actions.

I know I stated earlier that he should be relieved of duty - but I would really like to hear your opinion.

What were the exact crimes committed and what are the penalties?

For example, what is exact crime was committed when the LEO asked for their ID without having probable cause? What is the prescribed punishment?

Well, if Rosa Parks (our OC friend) is correct the courts have ruled that the police cannot do what the officer did. If violating the court ruling is not a crime then the court ruling means absolutely nothing and the police can continue to do as they please. I would hope that an officer acting in direct violation of the courts interpretation of the law would be held accountable by the law.

The courts don't make the laws. The courts ruled that an arrest and/or conviction could not stand if the LEO broke some of these rules. Their rulings did not make anything a crime. Mr. OC Guy was not arrested, prosecuted or found guilty. So unless some law was broken, Mr. LEO shouldn't go to jail. I don't see any law being broken during this video.

IMO, even if the LEO did break some law, justice wouldn't be served by his incarceration. In other words, I don't believe that a jail sentence is always the answer to punish a person who breaks the law, even if they are LEOs.

If you didn't see what happened as at least marginally criminal, I am aghast. The cop detained him without proper cause, and took his firearm without proper cause, not in performance of his duties. If I did that I would surely wind up in jail, just because he's a cop shouldn't excuse him from responsibility for his actions, even "That's the way we do it." (or whatever similar excuse) is merely an excuse that assigns additional guilt to the chain of command if it's really so.

Instead of time off with pay, it's more effective discipline to require time on without pay.

jimlongley wrote:If you didn't see what happened as at least marginally criminal, I am aghast. The cop detained him without proper cause, and took his firearm without proper cause, not in performance of his duties. If I did that I would surely wind up in jail, just because he's a cop shouldn't excuse him from responsibility for his actions, even "That's the way we do it." (or whatever similar excuse) is merely an excuse that assigns additional guilt to the chain of command if it's really so.

I see what happened and I believe I know why you are offended, but we usually don't arrest and jail people for marginally criminal acts.

Maybe the crimes are false imprisonment, false arrest under color of law, theft of property and threat of deadly force? I don't think any DA in the land would prosecute these crimes, nor would a judge or jury convict him. I know the LEO thought he was "just doing his job", but I don't think that this warrants his arrest and prison term.

WildBill wrote:

jimlongley wrote:If you didn't see what happened as at least marginally criminal, I am aghast. The cop detained him without proper cause, and took his firearm without proper cause, not in performance of his duties. If I did that I would surely wind up in jail, just because he's a cop shouldn't excuse him from responsibility for his actions, even "That's the way we do it." (or whatever similar excuse) is merely an excuse that assigns additional guilt to the chain of command if it's really so.

I see what happened and I believe I know why you are offended, but we usually don't arrest and jail people for marginally criminal acts.

Maybe the crimes are false imprisonment, false arrest under color of law, theft of property and threat of deadly force? I don't think any DA in the land would prosecute these crimes, nor would a judge or jury convict him. I know the LEO thought he was "just doing his job", but I don't think that this warrants his arrest and prison term.

Ok, I have been persuaded that jail may be extreme. But don't you think there should be some consequence for his actions? Some type of administrative action?

jmra wrote:

WildBill wrote:

jimlongley wrote:If you didn't see what happened as at least marginally criminal, I am aghast. The cop detained him without proper cause, and took his firearm without proper cause, not in performance of his duties. If I did that I would surely wind up in jail, just because he's a cop shouldn't excuse him from responsibility for his actions, even "That's the way we do it." (or whatever similar excuse) is merely an excuse that assigns additional guilt to the chain of command if it's really so.

I see what happened and I believe I know why you are offended, but we usually don't arrest and jail people for marginally criminal acts.

Maybe the crimes are false imprisonment, false arrest under color of law, theft of property and threat of deadly force? I don't think any DA in the land would prosecute these crimes, nor would a judge or jury convict him. I know the LEO thought he was "just doing his job", but I don't think that this warrants his arrest and prison term.

Ok, I have been persuaded that jail may be extreme. But don't you think there should be some consequence for his actions? Some type of administrative action?

I think that a closed door "training session" with his Sergeant and Captain would be sufficient.

WildBill wrote:

jmra wrote:

WildBill wrote:

jimlongley wrote:If you didn't see what happened as at least marginally criminal, I am aghast. The cop detained him without proper cause, and took his firearm without proper cause, not in performance of his duties. If I did that I would surely wind up in jail, just because he's a cop shouldn't excuse him from responsibility for his actions, even "That's the way we do it." (or whatever similar excuse) is merely an excuse that assigns additional guilt to the chain of command if it's really so.

I see what happened and I believe I know why you are offended, but we usually don't arrest and jail people for marginally criminal acts.

Maybe the crimes are false imprisonment, false arrest under color of law, theft of property and threat of deadly force? I don't think any DA in the land would prosecute these crimes, nor would a judge or jury convict him. I know the LEO thought he was "just doing his job", but I don't think that this warrants his arrest and prison term.

Ok, I have been persuaded that jail may be extreme. But don't you think there should be some consequence for his actions? Some type of administrative action?

I think that a closed door "training session" with his Sergeant and Captain would be sufficient.

perhaps along with an apology to the OC....if only they knew who he was....

WildBill wrote:

jimlongley wrote:If you didn't see what happened as at least marginally criminal, I am aghast. The cop detained him without proper cause, and took his firearm without proper cause, not in performance of his duties. If I did that I would surely wind up in jail, just because he's a cop shouldn't excuse him from responsibility for his actions, even "That's the way we do it." (or whatever similar excuse) is merely an excuse that assigns additional guilt to the chain of command if it's really so.

I see what happened and I believe I know why you are offended, but we usually don't arrest and jail people for marginally criminal acts.

Maybe the crimes are false imprisonment, false arrest under color of law, theft of property and threat of deadly force? I don't think any DA in the land would prosecute these crimes, nor would a judge or jury convict him. I know the LEO thought he was "just doing his job", but I don't think that this warrants his arrest and prison term.

People are arrested and tried for marginally criminal acts every day, and they get thrown in jail until they are bailed, and I don't see any reason that a jury wouldn't convict him, and if the DA won't prosecute, then the laws should be removed from the books or the DA should be removed from office.

What I saw was violations of civil rights, the law, and just plain common decency, and I don't see any reason to ignore those violations just because it was a cop that did it.

And Rosa carrying a camera? Maybe these incidents have happened in the past and video evidence was necessary to prove it because it always came down to
he said, she said and the cop got believed.

...I'm late to this one...but I've lived in an OC state from 14 to 34...and I OCed legally and CCed illegally for most of that time, except for the time I was a cop...I believe deeply in the right of a citizen to be able to defend himself...(or her)...I never charged a man with carrying a weapon except as an add-on charge to something else when he was already involved in a crime...I sent a lot of carrying men and women on their way with a warning to zip the purse or pull the coat down...
...don't need anyone to tell me I was wrong not to enforce the law against carrying concealed...I know I was...but I believed more strongly in God-given rights than man-given...

...when an LEO sees a citizen in an OC state carrying a weapon, and no other reason to notice him...not drunk, not loud and angry, not involved in anything remotely suspicious...forget all the cases this guy quoted...though they're valid...and good to know...how about just common decency and respect for the fellow man...it shouldn't make a cop nervous, afraid, uneasy, or anything else negative to see a citizen carrying...and if HQ dispatches him to check on a MWAG...he need not do anything but greet the guy, maybe even shake his hand...(he's put the public at ease) and tell him they got a call...and he responded so that noone would create a "problem" for the citizen...(he's shown the citizen respect)...

...this guy didn't seem to me to be like many who provoke an incident...he was properly upset...he was being wronged...yes, he did have his facts/cases down, and had a camera going...nothing wrong with that...it could have documented a respectful, even friendly meeting between a cop and his public...


...instead, it recorded a lame, embarrassing incident...the cop didn't have knowledge enough to realize the citizen was acting within the law...or, worse yet, he had the "Grapevine attitude" (we don't care what the law says, BOY, we don't allow that 'round hyar, y'understan'...)...he needs to be re-trained by his dept ....needs to be required to apologize to the citizen (on tape), and, if that isn't done, the citizen should take civil action to force it to be done...
...WHY? because when this kind of thing happens, it injures the citizens just as much as when a man misuses his gun and we all bear the shame...we deserve better...in this case, seemed like the Sgt. immediately rectified the situation, showing that he knew better...so maybe the department was not at fault...maybe it was only ignorance on the part of the offending officer...if they can find that he was trained properly but did it anyways, I'd say disciplinary time off would be effective...

...a man showing the responsibility to legally OC or CC deserves respect...he's stepped up to life a bit more than some...and I'm GLAD to see it when it happens...I won't make a statement that would violate the rules of the forum here...but good men/women should be armed...