03Lightningrocks wrote:It is like claiming that Pappa Johns is ripping me off when they deliver a pizza and wings to my house and charge me enough to buy the raw ingredients to make ten pizzas and fifty wings. How about that cup of coffee I drank that cost me a dollar fifty? Heck... I paid for ten pots! What is that all about. Waffle house ripping me off? Nope... It is about what it cost to get that cup of coffee conveniently in front of me so I can simply drink it.
The big difference is I don't need a license from the FDA to buy food at HEB and cook it at my own home.
You don't need a license to work on your own HVAC either. You need EPA certification to buy Refrigerant(a hazardous substance).
It's like requiring a federal license to buy food to cook at home, because people get food poisoning.
I sincerely apologize to anybody I offended by suggesting the Second Amendment also applies to The People who don't work for the government.
glbedd53 wrote:I still have a 30lb cylinder and about half of another one. Sounds like I might need to make some room in my gun safe for it.
You would think that... Wouldn't you. The same thing happened when r12 was finally eliminated. At first it went through the roof... Then drop in refrigerants came out and if you had r12... It was worthless almost overnight
03Lightningrocks wrote:It is like claiming that Pappa Johns is ripping me off when they deliver a pizza and wings to my house and charge me enough to buy the raw ingredients to make ten pizzas and fifty wings. How about that cup of coffee I drank that cost me a dollar fifty? Heck... I paid for ten pots! What is that all about. Waffle house ripping me off? Nope... It is about what it cost to get that cup of coffee conveniently in front of me so I can simply drink it.
The big difference is I don't need a license from the FDA to buy food at HEB and cook it at my own home.
You don't need a license to work on your own HVAC either. You need EPA certification to buy Refrigerant(a hazardous substance).
It's like requiring a federal license to buy food to cook at home, because people get food poisoning.
Food is not a hazardous substance. Technically speaking. Food from waffle house could possibly be hazardous.
03Lightningrocks wrote:It is like claiming that Pappa Johns is ripping me off when they deliver a pizza and wings to my house and charge me enough to buy the raw ingredients to make ten pizzas and fifty wings. How about that cup of coffee I drank that cost me a dollar fifty? Heck... I paid for ten pots! What is that all about. Waffle house ripping me off? Nope... It is about what it cost to get that cup of coffee conveniently in front of me so I can simply drink it.
The big difference is I don't need a license from the FDA to buy food at HEB and cook it at my own home.
You don't need a license to work on your own HVAC either. You need EPA certification to buy Refrigerant(a hazardous substance).
It's like requiring a federal license to buy food to cook at home, because people get food poisoning.
..but you know that food poisoning in the home would never happen if there were a Federal tax on home cooked food.
I wonder if the HVAC industry had any input to the EPA's rules. In Texas, you are not allowed to install alarm systems (for others) without a State license. And the only way to get a State license is to have two years in the State working for one of the existing alarm companies. I seriously doubt that you could keep your job with one of them if you said that your goal was to get enough experience to get your own license. Sometimes, we have the best government (at all levels) that money can by.
03Lightningrocks wrote:It is like claiming that Pappa Johns is ripping me off when they deliver a pizza and wings to my house and charge me enough to buy the raw ingredients to make ten pizzas and fifty wings. How about that cup of coffee I drank that cost me a dollar fifty? Heck... I paid for ten pots! What is that all about. Waffle house ripping me off? Nope... It is about what it cost to get that cup of coffee conveniently in front of me so I can simply drink it.
The big difference is I don't need a license from the FDA to buy food at HEB and cook it at my own home.
You don't need a license to work on your own HVAC either. You need EPA certification to buy Refrigerant(a hazardous substance).
It's like requiring a federal license to buy food to cook at home, because people get food poisoning.
..but you know that food poisoning in the home would never happen if there were a Federal tax on home cooked food.
I wonder if the HVAC industry had any input to the EPA's rules. In Texas, you are not allowed to install alarm systems (for others) without a State license. And the only way to get a State license is to have two years in the State working for one of the existing alarm companies. I seriously doubt that you could keep your job with one of them if you said that your goal was to get enough experience to get your own license. Sometimes, we have the best government (at all levels) that money can by.
Yes we did. We were against it! We lost! Take your tin foil hats off fellers. It is not a grand scheme to deprive you of your rights! Good lord! The laws required we incurred extra expenses, huge fines if we make the smallest of errors and the EPA can arbitrarily audit our records at their whim.
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Yes we did. We were against it! We lost! Take your tin foil hats off fellers. It is not a grand scheme to deprive you of your rights! Good lord! The laws required we incurred extra expenses, huge fines if we make the smallest of errors and the EPA can arbitrarily audit our records at their whim.
(tin foil hat off) I always assumed that local dealers and servicers would feel the same about all of this as the general population and not favor more regulations. I cannot imagine that the smaller businesses in any industry are in favor of Federal regulations. While bigger businesses can more readily absorb the costs of Sarbanes/Oxley, for example, the mom and pop type places have an unduly heavy burden from it.
I also recognize that almost all levels of business in the coal industry hate the EPA as much as I do. But the same is not true for every type of business. Banks, Insurance and Pharma have all made deals at the high level with their respective Federal regulators that hurt everyone else. I just was wondering if say HVAC manufacturing did the same. That isn't a tin foil hat situation, at least not to me. I don't believe that big oil was behind NJ's ban on individuals pumping their own gas - but someone was or that rule won't exist. Not all industries have a consist philosophy at all levels.
Back in the mid-70's, I was a lab technician for Copeland Corp, an air-conditioning compressor manufacturer. I remember we had these big sinks filled with F11 that we routinely used to clean and degrease parts. Boy, times have changed . . .
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Yes we did. We were against it! We lost! Take your tin foil hats off fellers. It is not a grand scheme to deprive you of your rights! Good lord! The laws required we incurred extra expenses, huge fines if we make the smallest of errors and the EPA can arbitrarily audit our records at their whim.
(tin foil hat off) I always assumed that local dealers and servicers would feel the same about all of this as the general population and not favor more regulations. I cannot imagine that the smaller businesses in any industry are in favor of Federal regulations. While bigger businesses can more readily absorb the costs of Sarbanes/Oxley, for example, the mom and pop type places have an unduly heavy burden from it.
I also recognize that almost all levels of business in the coal industry hate the EPA as much as I do. But the same is not true for every type of business. Banks, Insurance and Pharma have all made deals at the high level with their respective Federal regulators that hurt everyone else. I just was wondering if say HVAC manufacturing did the same. That isn't a tin foil hat situation, at least not to me. I don't believe that big oil was behind NJ's ban on individuals pumping their own gas - but someone was or that rule won't exist. Not all industries have a consist philosophy at all levels.
We are a mid sized company but even the largest HVAC companies are not big fans of the EPA. Those guys are making it hard on us all with this stuff. If it makes any of you folks feel better. I am not alowed to buy refrigerant either. I am licensed by the state of Texas to perform HVAC work. I carry 10 million dollars in liability insurance. I am responsible for any violations in EPA law by my employees, but I am not EPA certified. I have to pay for someone to check the refrigerant levels on my own unit and I have more 30 years of experience doing this kind of work. I am not even allowed to transport refrigerant which means I cannot pick up a unit that contains refrigerant from the supply house. I have to pay an EPA CERTIFIED employee to transport, purchase and handle all of our refrigerant and reclaim procedures.
I would vote for Romney in a heartbeat if he came out and said there's no constitutional authority for those rules and he promises to treat the executive branch like one of the companies he tiurned around.
scud runner wrote:I would vote for Romney in a heartbeat if he came out and said there's no constitutional authority for those rules and he promises to treat the executive branch like one of the companies he tiurned around.
Did Romeny turn around an air conditioning company?
Jumping Frog wrote:Back in the mid-70's, I was a lab technician for Copeland Corp, an air-conditioning compressor manufacturer. I remember we had these big sinks filled with F11 that we routinely used to clean and degrease parts. Boy, times have changed . . .
LOL... I know exactly what you speak of. I can remember places having barrels of the stuff just sitting around with the lids off. We use to fill up our flat tires with R22. I have personally dumped enough refrigerant into the environment to be responsible for around fifty square miles of the hole in the ozone.
They say it is the chlorine molecule in refrigerant that causes the damage. I have always wondered when the EPA would go after private swimming pool ownership. Something tells me the wealthy elitists in Washington won't go for their backyard pools being filled in with dirt.
P.S. R11(f11)was what we always used in the old days to clean out systems before recharging them with R22. I have work on commercial chillers where we would dump two or three hundred pounds through the system and allow it to just vent out the other side to remove contaminants.
Last edited by 03Lightningrocks on Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
03Lightningrocks wrote:They say it is the chlorine molecule in refrigerant that causes the damage.
I don't think so. Chlorine is in sea salt and the ocean is full of salt. I have sometimes wondered if the hole in the ozone is caused by global warming.
03Lightningrocks wrote:They say it is the chlorine molecule in refrigerant that causes the damage.
I don't think so. Chlorine is in sea salt and the ocean is full of salt. I have sometimes wondered if the hole in the ozone is caused by global warming.
I think it was George Bush Jr. that caused global warming.
It's like requiring a federal license to buy food to cook at home, because people get food poisoning.
