Consent to Search?

[srothstein]

Not sure the point got across. There would be nothing in a search that would help them establish the "crime" of a loud exhaust. This was a fishing expedition pure and simple. Even requesting a search warrant would limit the search to things involved in the "crime."

Not quite. The search does not have to be related to the violation that the stop was made for. For example, I can make a stop for speeding and request permission to search for evidence of bank robbery. The rules for justifying the search apply exactly the same as if I stopped you for expired registration and asked for permission to search for a new registration receipt.

And as I mentioned before, I sometimes ask for permission to search when I already have probable cause and know I will search anyway simply because permission is easier to defend in court than the probable cause.

[wgoforth]

Not sure the point got across. There would be nothing in a search that would help them establish the "crime" of a loud exhaust. This was a fishing expedition pure and simple. Even requesting a search warrant would limit the search to things involved in the "crime."

Not quite. The search does not have to be related to the violation that the stop was made for. For example, I can make a stop for speeding and request permission to search for evidence of bank robbery. The rules for justifying the search apply exactly the same as if I stopped you for expired registration and asked for permission to search for a new registration receipt.

And as I mentioned before, I sometimes ask for permission to search when I already have probable cause and know I will search anyway simply because permission is easier to defend in court than the probable cause.

Thank you for specifics.... but am I correct in saying that if you pull a car over for a routine traffic issue, that you cannot (without consent) simply search "just in case" you might happen to find something which you currently don't know? IOW, You pull over an 18 yo for doing 5 miles over. Since he is 18 and in college, then there's a possibility he could have some drugs in the car...but no reason to suspect other than age/college, etc. Can you, in this type of scenario, search or get a warrant w/o his consent?

[gigag04]

PC is necessary to obtain a search warrant.

However, a warrant isn't generally needed for a vehicle as it usually meets the warrant exception under exigency.

So, if an LEO an articulate PC to search your car, then he may do so absent consent.


A search based on circumstantial things like "college kids likely have drugs" would not stand. However "I observed a hand to hand transaction occur between the driver of the Vehicle and pedestrian occur in a high narcotics trafficking area, and I can see white powdery residue consistent with cocaine, sandwich baggies, and a digital scale in plain view" can easily be explained to establish PC and justify a search for narcotics.

A dope dog hit on a car usually constitutes PC.

[wgoforth]

PC is necessary to obtain a search warrant.

However, a warrant isn't generally needed for a vehicle as it usually meets the warrant exception under exigency.

So, if an LEO an articulate PC to search your car, then he may do so absent consent.


A search based on circumstantial things like "college kids likely have drugs" would not stand. However "I observed a hand to hand transaction occur between the driver of the Vehicle and pedestrian occur in a high narcotics trafficking area, and I can see white powdery residue consistent with cocaine, sandwich baggies, and a digital scale in plain view" can easily be explained to establish PC and justify a search for narcotics.

A dope dog hit on a car usually constitutes PC.

Understand. But in the video that brought my comments the couple only had a loud exhaust and were asked if their car could be searched.

[Jumping Frog]

Understand. But in the video that brought my comments the couple only had a loud exhaust and were asked if their car could be searched.

Can I search your bedroom?

Anyone, including Police, can ask if they can search anything.

We can always say no.

If the Police go ahead and search anyway, then one can argue before a judge whether they had sufficient cause.

[Jaguar]

An example of why not allow a search... family on a trip, consent to search. Everything is taken out and of course make a mess...reason pulled over, loud exhaust. What in a search could help ticket that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q01eMEVBn_k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A loud exhaust is clearly an indication that a crime is being committed.

Well that, and the tag line of the video is, "Gettin searched by the cops on the way to weedstock '98."

Maybe they were letting the cops search them to occupy their time while their buddies drove on by with exhausts well under legal limits. It looked like the cops were making a lot of searches along that road.

[glbedd53]

Ain't no jumpin frogs gonna be coming in my bedroom! Had a gecko in there once and she flipped out.

[Valk]

The video above is what we call a "trap".

They did them on HWY 59 South of Houston to Corpus. Their probable cause was a KLOL 101.01 FM sticker.

The answer is still NO.

[sjfcontrol]

She seemed mighty jolly thru the whole thing. They even played "Bad Boys Bad Boys" to the cops as they left!

[wgoforth]

She seemed mighty jolly thru the whole thing. They even played "Bad Boys Bad Boys" to the cops as they left!

Yeah, the woman in the video at least claims they purposely had the car loaded down to have fun with the cops.

[Sangiovese]

Add me to the list of people who will find it difficult to say no to an officer, but will refuse consent.

Back when I was young and naive I was asked twice and gave consent both times because, like many of you, I have a lot of respect for cops and the job they do. Now that I'm older and wiser, I will politely refuse consent if asked. Of course, I no longer have the hotrod and long hair that prompted the officers to go fishing :)

A couple quick thoughts on some of the issues brought up. For actual legal analysis, you'll want to consult a lawyer - but here are a few things to consider.

About the warrant issue - as gigag04 mentioned, there are several situations where a warrant is not required for a search to be legal. And even in cases where a warrant should have been required, the evidence can often still be admitted. So don't get too hung up on warrants. Demanding one won't help your case any more than simply refusing consent.

Someone asked about waiting for a K9 to arrive after they have refused consent. Typically, a K9 walking around the outside of your car won't be considered a "search" under the 4th amendment. So if they can do that while they have you stopped for a legitimate reason, then you don't have a complaint. If they detain you longer than the stop would normally take so that the k9 can get there (without probable cause), then it is an illegal seizure (of you and your car). How long can they keep you there for the traffic stop? That varies by court... but as little as ten minutes has been held to be unreasonable.

On a related note. When I went to the local "junkers R us" to buy my daughter a car for her 16th birthday, I was concerned about anything that might be left in the car. I asked nicely and the local PD actually ran their K9 through the car for me. I made sure to let my daughter know that since they had cleared it, if anything was ever found, she didn't have an excuse! Not sure how many departments would be willing to do this, but it can't hurt to ask. I started with the community relations officer for my area - that probably worked better than just calling the station.

[i8godzilla]

PC is necessary to obtain a search warrant.

However, a warrant isn't generally needed for a vehicle as it usually meets the warrant exception under exigency.

So, if an LEO an articulate PC to search your car, then he may do so absent consent.


A search based on circumstantial things like "college kids likely have drugs" would not stand. However "I observed a hand to hand transaction occur between the driver of the Vehicle and pedestrian occur in a high narcotics trafficking area, and I can see white powdery residue consistent with cocaine, sandwich baggies, and a digital scale in plain view" can easily be explained to establish PC and justify a search for narcotics.

A dope dog hit on a car usually constitutes PC.

Even if the dog is only right 26% of the time!

Then again, dogs are mans' best friend, right? Watch this, then ask yourself, "Is this really what the War on Drugs is all about?"
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=2lkZSKI-kmA[/youtube]