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2firfun50 wrote:In my opionion, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are not "entitlements". They are forced investments in the future. We have paid into that system since 1939 and it is too late to call a mulligan. For me, "Now" is the future I have been investing in it for a total of 47 yrs. It is time.

Its time to quit playing the shell game and get serious. The balloon payments are due. Neither party. nor the American people have the will or the courage.

Teamless wrote: 1 - they already paid their 23% on money they earned, then they took that earned (and taxed money) and invested it, and paid another 15% on earnings there, so they are essentially DOUBLE TAXED.
2 - they are [only] paying 15% on investment gains, but how much did they actually lose on their other investments?
So in the end, how much are they really paying out?
23% originally
15% on earnings
??? of losses?

RoyGBiv wrote:

2firfun50 wrote:In my opionion, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are not "entitlements". They are forced investments in the future. We have paid into that system since 1939 and it is too late to call a mulligan. For me, "Now" is the future I have been investing in it for a total of 47 yrs. It is time.

Its time to quit playing the shell game and get serious. The balloon payments are due. Neither party. nor the American people have the will or the courage.

Maybe you didn't catch this bit of news this week.
http://blog.aarp.org/2012/08/06/the-tak ... -get-back/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
How mad does it make you to know that putting your money in a passbook savings account would leave you better off than putting it into the SS Trust fund? It certainly makes me

If you LISTEN to Obama/Biden/Romney/Ryan, and then critically evaluate what they're saying, there's only one guy with un-impeachable credentials as a deficit and spending Hawk... Ryan. Ryan was the only guy in Congress with the testicular fortitude to put forward his own budget, including fixes to entitlements, then show it to the world and stand the heat and fury of being the guy that would push granny off the cliff. Listen to Ryan, give him the chance. He'll win you over. And he's open to negotiation and better ideas. But he's the ONLY guy brave enough to put his flag in the ground and start the discussion. He's an easy target, but thus far still standing. He's flourishing, because he's the only 100% true to himself guy on either ticket.

Teamless wrote: 1 - they already paid their 23% on money they earned, then they took that earned (and taxed money) and invested it, and paid another 15% on earnings there, so they are essentially DOUBLE TAXED.
2 - they are [only] paying 15% on investment gains, but how much did they actually lose on their other investments?
So in the end, how much are they really paying out?
23% originally
15% on earnings
??? of losses?

Spot-on
Investors create jobs for the rest of us.

2firfun50 wrote:As near as I can research, the Social Security trust Fund is owed 27% of the national debt. That money has been borrowed to support other government spending. That equates to over $3 trillion owed to everyone. With the aging population and more people becoming eligble for benefits, that money needs to be paid back (with interest) so it is available to pay benefits. That and with continuing contributions should be plenty for retirement and inproved medical benefits.

The Federal reserve is owed 17% of the national debt. That money needs to be paid back (with interest) and made available for private investment to start new business, grow current business, and be available for private consumer lending. All of which will stimulate the economy and be beneficial for job growth. $2+ trillon dollars should be plenty to get us out of this recession. The holders of these securities are also getting older and will want to "cash in" and begin spending what they have earned in their later years (money goes straight into the economy).

Where is the money to pay back these loans? Tax money of course. So taxes for everyone are going to have to increase in a fair and equitable manner. I'm tired of paying 23% while those living off investments are paying 15%. We cannot expect the working poor to pay much, there is no blood left in the turnip. Tax breaks for overseas profit, overseas investments, and yes even the beloved home mortage deduction must go. That is nothing more than a government subsudy for the housing industry.

On the spending side, budgets near and dear to many are going to be forced downward. Military spending, foreign aid, pet congressional projects (pork which gets you re-elected). They must be cut far enough to allow substantial regular, routine payments to Social Security and the Federal Reserve (buy back the bonds, notes etc and force the money into the private sector).

In my opionion, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are not "entitlements". They are forced investments in the future. We have paid into that system since 1939 and it is too late to call a mulligan. For me, "Now" is the future I have been investing in it for a total of 47 yrs. It is time.

Its time to quit playing the shell game and get serious. The balloon payments are due. Neither party. nor the American people have the will or the courage.

2firfun50 wrote:As near as I can research, the Social Security trust Fund is owed 27% of the national debt. That money has been borrowed to support other government spending. That equates to over $3 trillion owed to everyone. With the aging population and more people becoming eligble for benefits, that money needs to be paid back (with interest) so it is available to pay benefits. That and with continuing contributions should be plenty for retirement and inproved medical benefits.

The Federal reserve is owed 17% of the national debt. That money needs to be paid back (with interest) and made available for private investment to start new business, grow current business, and be available for private consumer lending. All of which will stimulate the economy and be beneficial for job growth. $2+ trillon dollars should be plenty to get us out of this recession. The holders of these securities are also getting older and will want to "cash in" and begin spending what they have earned in their later years (money goes straight into the economy).

Where is the money to pay back these loans? Tax money of course. So taxes for everyone are going to have to increase in a fair and equitable manner. I'm tired of paying 23% while those living off investments are paying 15%. We cannot expect the working poor to pay much, there is no blood left in the turnip. Tax breaks for overseas profit, overseas investments, and yes even the beloved home mortage deduction must go. That is nothing more than a government subsudy for the housing industry.

On the spending side, budgets near and dear to many are going to be forced downward. Military spending, foreign aid, pet congressional projects (pork which gets you re-elected). They must be cut far enough to allow substantial regular, routine payments to Social Security and the Federal Reserve (buy back the bonds, notes etc and force the money into the private sector).

In my opionion, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are not "entitlements". They are forced investments in the future. We have paid into that system since 1939 and it is too late to call a mulligan. For me, "Now" is the future I have been investing in it for a total of 47 yrs. It is time.

Its time to quit playing the shell game and get serious. The balloon payments are due. Neither party. nor the American people have the will or the courage.

2firfun50 wrote:he loses his powerful seat in the house. He now becomes a non factor after the election if Romney wins

Teamless wrote:

2firfun50 wrote:'m tired of paying 23% while those living off investments are paying 15%.

You are paying 23% on money you earned working.
They are paying 15% on money they invested and were on the right side of the investment.

There are 2 things to consider:
1 - they already paid their 23% on money they earned, then they took that earned (and taxed money) and invested it, and paid another 15% on earnings there, so they are essentially DOUBLE TAXED.
2 - they are [only] paying 15% on investment gains, but how much did they actually lose on their other investments?
So in the end, how much are they really paying out?
23% originally
15% on earnings
??? of losses?

Teamless wrote:

2firfun50 wrote:he loses his powerful seat in the house. He now becomes a non factor after the election if Romney wins

Well, the republicans already have the house and unless something changes in November, that will remain.

He gains an actually bigger seat in the senate as the VP is over the Senate, so if the Senate actually goes 50/50 this year, he has the deciding vote.
ETA: I am thinking back 25 years to school, I hope my memory is right about the deciding vote

Slowplay wrote:I'm calling for Mitt Romney to start by releasing his college records!

Teamless wrote:

Slowplay wrote:I'm calling for Mitt Romney to start by releasing his college records!

Obama never released his, so how are you going to compare the two?

You cannot ask one to do it, when the other will not.

I am 100% sure MItt would also release his Birth Certificate!

G26ster wrote: but I think you missed the sarcasm

Teamless wrote:

G26ster wrote: but I think you missed the sarcasm

hmmm, could be, its hard to go from a "real' debate to "sarcasm" and see it!

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I don't know who was the first politician to publish their tax returns, but he/she was an idiot. Tax returns are not relevant to a person's qualifications for the job, they only provide fodder for more negative campaigning.

Chas.