TexasCHLforum.com

I found Romney's answer on gun control to be even more disturbing than Obama's.

Why?

Obama will not get an AWB through a republican congress. They will fight this. On the other hand, Romney was proud of his AWB in MA, and said he would work with democrats to get gun control passed. What does this mean? Well, for one, I think he would be happy to ban private sales under the guise of closing the "gun show loophole" if it meant he got something he wants. There are plenty of republicans willing to let something like that slide, and it would be far, far worse to long term gun rights than an AWB, especially one with a sunset clause. Of course Obama could do this too, but I think the republicans would fight him more.

Yes, Obama is worse, but Romney is truely scary for gun rights.

As to voting third party, I think in a place like Texas where the Republicans lead by double digits, it is perfectly defensible to vote for someone other than the main two parties especially when the main parties offer such poor choices. I liked Johnson in the primary and may very well end up voting for him yet. If the libertarian starts cutting into the republican's lead maybe they will finally take notice and actually find some conservatives to run.

Jaguar wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:

Jaguar wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:I agree. Why waste the time? Staying home and not voting will accomplish the same end. In the grand scheme of things, what changes when voting for a no chance candidate? Nothing. Not one single thing. This type voter is an invalid non entity; his vote of no consequence or significance.

The purpose of a vote is not intended to be used as a protest, but to pursue a tangible result. Dont be a bystander, validate the effort; if one wants his protest noticed, he would accomplish more by becoming an activist and stand on the sidewalk with a sign.

So, you do not want me to vote for Ted Cruz? You believe I have no say in local elections because I pull the "L" lever on the presidential race?

Thanks, but no thanks. I will vote and make my voice heard even if you don't like it. I may not like what you say, I will defend you right to say it.

Twisting what I said doesnt validate your position, and Ted Cruz is not a "no chance" candidate....and for the record, I will stand by those who stand by me. No offense intended, but if you wont defend your rights by making your vote count, you cant depend on me to.

I don’t believe I twisted anything you said. I won’t vote Romney due to the specifics he laid out in the debate last night, not because I believe he is as bad as Obama. That seemed to trigger a “just don’t vote” response, which I take issue with. Sure, maybe my vote for the top of the ticket is only a protest, but that doesn’t nullify (I hope) my choice for State Senator, or U.S Representative or County Tax Assessor-Collector.

There are other local elections that my vote counts for and I typically vote for the conservative candidate. But if someone I am looking at voting for states they are for intrusive government, taking money and giving it to people for student financial aid and green energy, want to tax the rich disproportionately, are believers in affirmative action, etc., then I won’t be giving them my vote. And if, as a fellow Texan and I presume conservative minded person, you won’t defend my right to vote my conscience, we are all in worse trouble than I thought.

Sorry but I have no obligation to support your pursuit of such indulgence. Let's clear the obfuscation. This issue isnt about a local election. It's about defeating an impending threat to conservative Americans. There is no time for pandering. At present there can be no other focus. You must be all in or all out.

Youre embracing a luxury we conservatives can no longer afford. If you want the benefits of a commonality then you must also bear its burdens. All hands must bail the life raft. I am a pragmatic libertarian and at a present recognize that Romney comes closest to American needs than a Marxist.

Have a good one.

txmatt wrote:I found Romney's answer on gun control to be even more disturbing than Obama's.

Why?

Obama will not get an AWB through a republican congress. They will fight this. On the other hand, Romney was proud of his AWB in MA, and said he would work with democrats to get gun control passed. What does this mean? Well, for one, I think he would be happy to ban private sales under the guise of closing the "gun show loophole" if it meant he got something he wants. There are plenty of republicans willing to let something like that slide, and it would be far, far worse to long term gun rights than an AWB, especially one with a sunset clause. Of course Obama could do this too, but I think the republicans would fight him more.

Yes, Obama is worse, but Romney is truely scary for gun rights.

As to voting third party, I think in a place like Texas where the Republicans lead by double digits, it is perfectly defensible to vote for someone other than the main two parties especially when the main parties offer such poor choices. I liked Johnson in the primary and may very well end up voting for him yet. If the libertarian starts cutting into the republican's lead maybe they will finally take notice and actually find some conservatives to run.

I think I watched a different debate that you did, I did not come away that Romney was proud of the Mass AWB, what I heard was the he worked with both the GOP and Dem's in a highly Dem run state to get something that both could live with, no where did I hear that he would work with the Dem's if elected President to discuss a new AWB, then again just maybe my ears were not working properly. Of course no AWB in Mass would have been the goal, what would you have done with a state run by Dem's who told you that they were going to pass an AWB? You could veto it and have it easily overridden by the Dem's and become law or you could negotiate and get something in return, which is exactly what Romney did.

Jim Beaux wrote:

Jaguar wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:

Jaguar wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:I agree. Why waste the time? Staying home and not voting will accomplish the same end. In the grand scheme of things, what changes when voting for a no chance candidate? Nothing. Not one single thing. This type voter is an invalid non entity; his vote of no consequence or significance.

The purpose of a vote is not intended to be used as a protest, but to pursue a tangible result. Dont be a bystander, validate the effort; if one wants his protest noticed, he would accomplish more by becoming an activist and stand on the sidewalk with a sign.

So, you do not want me to vote for Ted Cruz? You believe I have no say in local elections because I pull the "L" lever on the presidential race?

Thanks, but no thanks. I will vote and make my voice heard even if you don't like it. I may not like what you say, I will defend you right to say it.

Twisting what I said doesnt validate your position, and Ted Cruz is not a "no chance" candidate....and for the record, I will stand by those who stand by me. No offense intended, but if you wont defend your rights by making your vote count, you cant depend on me to.

I don’t believe I twisted anything you said. I won’t vote Romney due to the specifics he laid out in the debate last night, not because I believe he is as bad as Obama. That seemed to trigger a “just don’t vote” response, which I take issue with. Sure, maybe my vote for the top of the ticket is only a protest, but that doesn’t nullify (I hope) my choice for State Senator, or U.S Representative or County Tax Assessor-Collector.

There are other local elections that my vote counts for and I typically vote for the conservative candidate. But if someone I am looking at voting for states they are for intrusive government, taking money and giving it to people for student financial aid and green energy, want to tax the rich disproportionately, are believers in affirmative action, etc., then I won’t be giving them my vote. And if, as a fellow Texan and I presume conservative minded person, you won’t defend my right to vote my conscience, we are all in worse trouble than I thought.

Sorry but I have no obligation to support your pursuit of such indulgence. Let's clear the obfuscation. This issue isnt about a local election. It's about defeating an impending threat to conservative Americans. There is no time for pandering. At present there can be no other focus. You must be all in or all out.

Youre embracing a luxury we conservatives can no longer afford. If you want the benefits of a commonality then you must also bear its burdens. All hands must bail the life raft. I am a pragmatic libertarian and at a present recognize that Romney comes closest to American needs than a Marxist.

Have a good one.

So be it. As I stated earlier, better to get the revolution rolling along than to slow the pace and force my children and grandchildren to do what needs to be done in 2012. If we allow ourselves to slowly drift into marxism under Romney what have we gained beyond a generation?

I have no obligation to support a man who claims to embrace the same things Obama does and calls himself a Republican. Did you watch the debate? I did, and not to disagree with Obama - I know I disagree with him, but I watched it to see a businessman tell me how he would use free market ideas and remove roadblocks to free enterprise. Instead I saw “Obama lite.” To watch the debate was to see two candidates vying to say who would cut taxes the least for top earners, who would “crack down” most on China, who would take more of my money and give it to “deserving” college students, and who believed the most in an “all of the above” energy strategy.

It disgusted me. It made me sad. I was for Romney before the debate, but he lost my vote. There is still time for him to change my mind, but telling me “he’s better than Obama” isn’t going to do it for me. Tell me what he will do, how he will enable business to grow, how he will enact massive cuts to the federal budget, how he will end the nanny state, how he will repeal Obamacare and not just offer fixes (repeal and replace? – give me a break), and how he will protect our basic human freedom from intrusive government. You know, what most conservatives want.

Jaguar,

this year, you have four choices and only four choices.

1) vote for Obama and help Obama win and continue his current policies with no restrictions
2) vote for Romney and while it might not be your perfect world, the path is diverted and either slows or halts but it will not be the same path as Obama and either fixes the problem or gives more time to fix the problem with a congress that hopefully has seen the light. (I will be the first to say....This is the Repub. last chance for me. Either do it right or you will not ever get my vote or money again)
3) vote for a third party. This is a vote for Obama as seen with the election put Clinton in office.
4) don't vote as a protest or otherwise. This again is exactly the same as a vote for the third party with exactly the same result as #3.

If you feel that the "devil you know" is better for you, your children, your state, your country...then vote #1,3 or 4.
If you feel even a bit that the course is not in your best interest or the best interest of your children, state or country.....vote #2.

For me, I have talked to individuals that I know and respect who have protected both the first family and the family of Romney present and past.......Their insight of the quality of the men running is all I need to make my decision.

#2

Garry N

We need a pig rasslin' smiley.

Anygunanywhere

solaritx wrote:Jaguar,

this year, you have four choices and only four choices.

1) vote for Obama and help Obama win and continue his current policies with no restrictions
2) vote for Romney and while it might not be your perfect world, the path is diverted and either slows or halts but it will not be the same path as Obama and either fixes the problem or gives more time to fix the problem with a congress that hopefully has seen the light. (I will be the first to say....This is the Repub. last chance for me. Either do it right or you will not ever get my vote or money again)
3) vote for a third party. This is a vote for Obama as seen with the election put Clinton in office.
4) don't vote as a protest or otherwise. This again is exactly the same as a vote for the third party with exactly the same result as #3.

If you feel that the "devil you know" is better for you, your children, your state, your country...then vote #1,3 or 4.
If you feel even a bit that the course is not in your best interest or the best interest of your children, state or country.....vote #2.

For me, I have talked to individuals that I know and respect who have protected both the first family and the family of Romney present and past.......Their insight of the quality of the men running is all I need to make my decision.

#2

Garry N

EXACTLY

I am so far to the right of Romney that he looks like a leftwinger to me. However, he has my vote and my money this election cycle. We MUST remove Obama. Then next primary election I will work like a dog to replace Romney with somewhere better. And so on and so on! Inch by inch, foot by foot. We didn't get here overnight we arent going to get out of it overnight!Just because Romney is not the "perfect" candidate, no one is, doesnt mean I will tolerate another 4 years of nObama!

I'll be casting my vote FOR Paul Ryan. Wholeheartedly. I disagree even with Mr. Ryan on many important social issues, but "SMALL GOVERNMENT" trumps all other things at this moment in time. I'll argue with Mr. Ryan about the things on which we disagree, after he's sworn in.

I do wish Mr. Romney was more a "SMALL GOVERNMENT" guy, and I do yearn for a tax code revolution. But a Romney government will most certainly be smaller than another Obama government.

And I liked the fire in Romney's eyes last night when Candy tried to interrupt him calling Obama a liar.
Did you see the photo? I saw it earlier but can't seem to find it right now..

ETA: This was NOT the one I was talking about.. but.. close..

Salty1 wrote:

txmatt wrote:I found Romney's answer on gun control to be even more disturbing than Obama's.

Why?

Obama will not get an AWB through a republican congress. They will fight this. On the other hand, Romney was proud of his AWB in MA, and said he would work with democrats to get gun control passed. What does this mean? Well, for one, I think he would be happy to ban private sales under the guise of closing the "gun show loophole" if it meant he got something he wants. There are plenty of republicans willing to let something like that slide, and it would be far, far worse to long term gun rights than an AWB, especially one with a sunset clause. Of course Obama could do this too, but I think the republicans would fight him more.

Yes, Obama is worse, but Romney is truely scary for gun rights.

As to voting third party, I think in a place like Texas where the Republicans lead by double digits, it is perfectly defensible to vote for someone other than the main two parties especially when the main parties offer such poor choices. I liked Johnson in the primary and may very well end up voting for him yet. If the libertarian starts cutting into the republican's lead maybe they will finally take notice and actually find some conservatives to run.

I think I watched a different debate that you did, I did not come away that Romney was proud of the Mass AWB, what I heard was the he worked with both the GOP and Dem's in a highly Dem run state to get something that both could live with, no where did I hear that he would work with the Dem's if elected President to discuss a new AWB, then again just maybe my ears were not working properly. Of course no AWB in Mass would have been the goal, what would you have done with a state run by Dem's who told you that they were going to pass an AWB? You could veto it and have it easily overridden by the Dem's and become law or you could negotiate and get something in return, which is exactly what Romney did.

I am going to vote for Romney because, unlike others, I really like Romney. I might be eating my words later on, but it is what it is. I don't believe he will strike against gun rights, unlike our present POTUS. I believe he will select the best Supreme Court Judges when/if the time comes. I also believe he is best for the Nation including any of the other candidates running, Lib/Green or otherwise. Is he the absolute best? Nope, I am the only one who I agree with 100% of the time, so I have to take that into account during my vote. So, go Romney/Ryan

here's the way I figure it....

1. Romney/Ryan - ultimately better on guns.
2. R/R - ultimately better/smarter for small business...my desire is to be able to start a micro-business, two plans have been bankrupted by dem congressess in the last 8 years before I could even file a DBA....maybe R/R will be able to keep things in line for me to get my new idea off the ground.
3. it seems that R/R want to move many....tasks?....away from the fed govn't and to the states, where they should be in anyway. Hmm, sounds like Ron Paul and the libertarians?

that's just a few things, and it's going to depend on congress if they can get anything done....

how come we cant get a moderator that can tell either one to STOP your tie is up and sit down.
I could, mr. president your time has expired please be quiet, then if rambles I said, your done.sit down NOW
both had microphones on, couldnt they set a two minute timer to shut off their mics?

i thought barry was going to punch romney there for a second when he called him out Governor....now that would have been a AH crap moment I thought for sure he was going to say shut up gov or I SAID be quiet or I am the pres.

Barry did admit

"when I was president" that was a great screwed up

A person has got to vote their conscience. I just hope that anyone that does not vote for Romney realizes that, while their vote will be counted, their voice will never be heard. And, if by horrible travesty of justice, the obamanation should be re-elected, there will be some really disappointed folks around here because we will know that there are others that even though they can't stand the obamanation they also refused to vote for Romney.

How long have we (the country) been trying to get this third party thing going? In my short, nearly 50 years, I can only remember Ross Perot making the most realistic run at it and even that was hopeless.

A (very) short story, by Jaguar.


In the year 2050, when I am in my 80's, I will look back on this election and say, "well, at least Obama did not get reelected."

Meanwhile the government nurse, nurse Ratchet, will be double checking my "end of time" IV to ensure I go peacefully.

We converse about the good old days, when people were expected to provide for their own health care and could determine how they wanted to go out. How we could shoot any firearm we wanted just because, well, we wanted to. Nurse Ratchet will say, "oh, Mr. Jaguar, why do talk of such things, you know you can't have more than 25 rounds of .22 ammo a year." I would try to tell her it wasn't always like that, once upon a time we could shoot all we wanted to, even without the consent of the government. We would talk of things from days gone by, and poor nurse Ratchet would roll her eyes and patiently listen to the ramblings of an old man.

"What?" she would ask when I came to a particularly unbelievable moment of my life, "You actually had cancer?" "Why yes ma'am, I've had it twice, once I got chemotherapy treatment and the other time I had surgery; believe it or not" I would reply nonplused. Of course that is an expensive disease now days, so only very high ups in the government were allowed those treatments. Knowing I once paid my own therapy gave me a smile, and once the shock wore off nurse Ratchet, she returned to her blasé, professional attitude concerning the job at hand. "Well, you're lordship, I guess I didn't know who I was dealing with."

As I start to feel the effects of the end of time drugs, I notice a text message from my grandson on my Obama phoneTM. "Papa, just wanted to see if you need anything, you know, before..." Since the government controls all new technology, phones have not progressed past text messages. I look at the nurse who isn't paying any attention to me and type in a reply, "I left something for you, under the big mesquite stump in my back pasture. You will need a shovel." Then, as I fade away, at least I know he has a chance, and at least I voted for Romney.

Three days later, my grandson is staring at my cache of weapons, a Marlin .22 lever rifle, a 9mm Glock pistol, a .308 bolt action Mouser, and a Colt AR-15 in .223; all with 2000 rounds for each weapon. His eyes are wide with wonder as he pulls out his phone, dials 911, and reports the illegal firearms he has found.




.......................
Credit - some of this comes from Kurt Vonnegut, other parts come from a story I read on the internet. Very little comes from my own imagination.

C-dub wrote:A person has got to vote their conscience. I just hope that anyone that does not vote for Romney realizes that, while their vote will be counted, their voice will never be heard. And, if by horrible travesty of justice, the obamanation should be re-elected, there will be some really disappointed folks around here because we will know that there are others that even though they can't stand the obamanation they also refused to vote for Romney.

How long have we (the country) been trying to get this third party thing going? In my short, nearly 50 years, I can only remember Ross Perot making the most realistic run at it and even that was hopeless.

Ross Perot is what gave us Bill Clinton. Here is a link to a good write up on the issue. Interesting read. http://race42012.com/2011/04/20/did-ros ... l-clinton/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jaguar wrote:A (very) short story, by Jaguar.


In the year 2050, when I am in my 80's, I will look back on this election and say, "well, at least Obama did not get reelected."

Meanwhile the government nurse, nurse Ratchet, will be double checking my "end of time" IV to ensure I go peacefully.

We converse about the good old days, when people were expected to provide for their own health care and could determine how they wanted to go out. How we could shoot any firearm we wanted just because, well, we wanted to. Nurse Ratchet will say, "oh, Mr. Jaguar, why do talk of such things, you know you can't have more than 25 rounds of .22 ammo a year." I would try to tell her it wasn't always like that, once upon a time we could shoot all we wanted to, even without the consent of the government. We would talk of things from days gone by, and poor nurse Ratchet would roll her eyes and patiently listen to the ramblings of an old man.

"What?" she would ask when I came to a particularly unbelievable moment of my life, "You actually had cancer?" "Why yes ma'am, I've had it twice, once I got chemotherapy treatment and the other time I had surgery; believe it or not" I would reply nonplused. Of course that is an expensive disease now days, so only very high ups in the government were allowed those treatments. Knowing I once paid my own therapy gave me a smile, and once the shock wore off nurse Ratchet, she returned to her blasé, professional attitude concerning the job at hand. "Well, you're lordship, I guess I didn't know who I was dealing with."

As I start to feel the effects of the end of time drugs, I notice a text message from my grandson on my Obama phoneTM. "Papa, just wanted to see if you need anything, you know, before..." Since the government controls all new technology, phones have not progressed past text messages. I look at the nurse who isn't paying any attention to me and type in a reply, "I left something for you, under the big mesquite stump in my back pasture. You will need a shovel." Then, as I fade away, at least I know he has a chance, and at least I voted for Romney.

Three days later, my grandson is staring at my cache of weapons, a Marlin .22 lever rifle, a 9mm Glock pistol, a .308 bolt action Mouser, and a Colt AR-15 in .223; all with 2000 rounds for each weapon. His eyes are wide with wonder as he pulls out his phone, dials 911, and reports the illegal firearms he has found.




.......................
Credit - some of this comes from Kurt Vonnegut, other parts come from a story I read on the internet. Very little comes from my own imagination.

Jaguar a word of advice..... if we are in that state of affair....don't go to the hospital in 2050. Do no consent to your own murder. People can and do recover from many ailments without the benefit of the hospitals.....and I would rather go on my own than on the word of some bureaucrat.