Re: Open Carry poll by your county population
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:24 pm
Like duck hunting, I don't want to do it but I think it should be legal.
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Grant, I don't spend a lot of time on this forum but has there ever been an OC bill you supported?Charles L. Cotton wrote:It's not a problem! You point to an arrest that was allegedly made for something that was not illegal. If a LEO is going to do that, then they will arrest someone for open-carrying when that's not illegal either. Don't say that won't happen; just read OpenCarry.org (if you can stomach it) and you'll see countless examples. All an officer would have to do is claim the person "display[ed] a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm" in violation of TPC §42.01(a)(8). Simply putting one's hand on their openly-carried pistol would support such an arrest.DEB wrote:RoyGBiv wrote:I am FOR OC.
I would not OC myself. But OC would make it easier to carry concealed OWB without worry about unintentionally unconcealing.This is exactly the reason I am for OC. Before anyone states that it isn't a problem, tell that to that young soldier arrested in Metroplex in Killeen, where L.E. first stated that the reason he was arrested was due to the bulge he saw.
Open-carry does not solve any problems. OC supporters do not help their cause by trying to create a problem to solve. TPC §46.035(a) could not be more clear, one must "intentionally" fail to conceal their handgun before they have created a violation. Arguing otherwise will put people in the position of having to testify in public hearings that this is not a problem under current law and this hurts the open-carry cause.
Sell open-carry for what it is, an option that does not negatively impact public safety.
Chas.
Only one open-carry bill has been introduced in the Texas Legislature and that was in the 2011 session. I didn't write that thing and I did not consult on it. I work on NRA and TSRA bills, as well as bills I am asked to write for Representatives and Senators. None of those persons or entities have put open-carry on their legislative agenda.johnferg69 wrote:Grant, I don't spend a lot of time on this forum but has there ever been an OC bill you supported?Charles L. Cotton wrote:It's not a problem! You point to an arrest that was allegedly made for something that was not illegal. If a LEO is going to do that, then they will arrest someone for open-carrying when that's not illegal either. Don't say that won't happen; just read OpenCarry.org (if you can stomach it) and you'll see countless examples. All an officer would have to do is claim the person "display[ed] a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm" in violation of TPC §42.01(a)(8). Simply putting one's hand on their openly-carried pistol would support such an arrest.DEB wrote:RoyGBiv wrote:I am FOR OC.
I would not OC myself. But OC would make it easier to carry concealed OWB without worry about unintentionally unconcealing.This is exactly the reason I am for OC. Before anyone states that it isn't a problem, tell that to that young soldier arrested in Metroplex in Killeen, where L.E. first stated that the reason he was arrested was due to the bulge he saw.
Open-carry does not solve any problems. OC supporters do not help their cause by trying to create a problem to solve. TPC §46.035(a) could not be more clear, one must "intentionally" fail to conceal their handgun before they have created a violation. Arguing otherwise will put people in the position of having to testify in public hearings that this is not a problem under current law and this hurts the open-carry cause.
Sell open-carry for what it is, an option that does not negatively impact public safety.
Chas.
Have you ever written, helped write, consulted or advised on a OC bill?
So where do we stand on the first step and why MUST TPC 46.035 be repelled first?Charles L. Cotton wrote:Only one open-carry bill has been introduced in the Texas Legislature and that was in the 2011 session. I didn't write that thing and I did not consult on it. I work on NRA and TSRA bills, as well as bills I am asked to write for Representatives and Senators. None of those persons or entities have put open-carry on their legislative agenda.johnferg69 wrote:Grant, I don't spend a lot of time on this forum but has there ever been an OC bill you supported?Charles L. Cotton wrote:It's not a problem! You point to an arrest that was allegedly made for something that was not illegal. If a LEO is going to do that, then they will arrest someone for open-carrying when that's not illegal either. Don't say that won't happen; just read OpenCarry.org (if you can stomach it) and you'll see countless examples. All an officer would have to do is claim the person "display[ed] a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm" in violation of TPC §42.01(a)(8). Simply putting one's hand on their openly-carried pistol would support such an arrest.DEB wrote:RoyGBiv wrote:I am FOR OC.
I would not OC myself. But OC would make it easier to carry concealed OWB without worry about unintentionally unconcealing.This is exactly the reason I am for OC. Before anyone states that it isn't a problem, tell that to that young soldier arrested in Metroplex in Killeen, where L.E. first stated that the reason he was arrested was due to the bulge he saw.
Open-carry does not solve any problems. OC supporters do not help their cause by trying to create a problem to solve. TPC §46.035(a) could not be more clear, one must "intentionally" fail to conceal their handgun before they have created a violation. Arguing otherwise will put people in the position of having to testify in public hearings that this is not a problem under current law and this hurts the open-carry cause.
Sell open-carry for what it is, an option that does not negatively impact public safety.
Chas.
Have you ever written, helped write, consulted or advised on a OC bill?
I have publicly stated/posted that open-carry should be approached with a two-prong, two-session strategy by simply repealing TPC §46.035(a) in one session, then filing an appropriately captioned "clean-up bill" the following session to remove the word "concealed" except in TPC §30.06. Yes, this takes two sessions, but it greatly reduces the chance of anti-gun amendments being added to a bill like the one filed last session. (Last session's open-carry bill opened virtually every important section of the Government Code and Penal Code to anti-gun amendment.) I've been even more vocal and published more about the need to maintain TPC §30.06 as it appears now and not amend it to cover both open-carry and concealed-carry as was done in last session's bill.
My suggestions have been ignored by the folks who claim to be spearheading the open-carry movement in Texas. In fact, the President of LoneStarCDL has expressly stated "they" will never accept leaving TPC §30.06 to cover only concealed-carry. In his words, it must be amended to cover both open-carry and concealed-carry to prevent a so-called "double standard." If an open-carry bill amends TPC §30.06, it will again fail.
Chas.
Repealing TPC 46.035 would effectively created licensed open carry. You wouldn't be able to violate any of the laws that specifically specify exceptions for "concealed" handguns though. The clean-up he's proposing would fix this. That's my interpretation at least.johnferg69 wrote:So where do we stand on the first step and why MUST TPC 46.035 be repelled first?
I thought TPC 46.035 stated places that were off limit to CHL holders like bars, amusement parks, correctional facilities, etc. That's why I don't understand the need to repeal it first before open carry. I can tell you right now, TDCJ will NEVER allow open carry on their property.KingofChaos wrote:Repealing TPC 46.035 would effectively created licensed open carry. You wouldn't be able to violate any of the laws the specifically specify exceptions for "concealed" handguns though. The clean-up he's proposes would fix this. That's my interpretation at least.johnferg69 wrote:So where do we stand on the first step and why MUST TPC 46.035 be repelled first?
§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSEjohnferg69 wrote: I thought TPC 46.035 stated places that were off limit to CHL holders like bars, amusement parks, correctional facilities, etc. That's why I don't understand the need to repeal it first before open carry. I can tell you right now, TDCJ will NEVER allow open carry on their property.
You'll have to ask the people who are promoting open-carry.johnferg69 wrote:So where do we stand on the first step[.]
I explained that in my answer.johnferg69 wrote: . . . why MUST TPC 46.035 be repelled first?
They're different in that that don't have the luxury of signage like 30.06 we have. So legislation in Texas has to be right so we don't blow all the years of work that went in to getting the protection we enjoy. I want the choice, but I don't want any added risk.johnferg69 wrote:Well the newest state to go open carry is Oklahoma. We'll see how much pandemonium ensues.Keith B wrote:I just believe that the legialature would feel the sign needed to be more visible than a gun buster sign and would say 'We already have a sign, so just modify it to prevent any carry.' Then those businesses who today don't really know people are carrying would then post signs to prevent open carry and the single sign would prevent concealed carry too. It's the old adage, out of sight, out of mind. When people started open carrying I can garuntee you would see a new crop of signs go up.
I know that your post was tounge in cheek, but one of the reasons that I would use open carry (a selfish reason, but a reason nontheless) is the fact that one of my hobbies is trailriding.Abraham wrote:I'm ambivalent regarding open carry. I'm content with my CHL and wouldn't open carry publicly if I legally could, but that's me. If it does become legal and you want to - have at it.
I wonder though, what percentage (I assume a small one) simply want an ego boost were open carry allowed...?
Perhaps, even ride a white horse like Hopalong Cassidy, wear a western costume, and oh yeah, a fine two gun set of big ole revolvers complete with fine leather tooled holsters and a cartridge belt filled to capacity with gleaming rounds.
Then, if you can carry a tune, wherever you roam in Texas you could sing, "I've got spurs that jingle, jangle, jingle...
Am I mocking? Yes, a little.
Many OC fans seem wound a bit tight - so a bit of levity.
Who?Charles L. Cotton wrote:the President of LoneStarCDL