TexasCHLforum.com

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

Interesting. Was he driving on the campus?

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

If they pulled me over for a minor traffic offense they probably wouldn't know I am carrying. I have an AZ CHL, I did get pulled over a few months ago and I did give the trooper my CHL and it confused the hell out of him. I told him how a Texas resident gets and Arizona CHL and he was really interested in that. Nice guy, gave me a warning for no front license plate, but after that I decided I am not mentioning it.

paxton25 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

If they pulled me over for a minor traffic offense they probably wouldn't know I am carrying. I have an AZ CHL, I did get pulled over a few months ago and I did give the trooper my CHL and it confused the heck out of him. I told him how a Texas resident gets and Arizona CHL and he was really interested in that. Nice guy, gave me a warning for no front license plate, but after that I decided I am not mentioning it.

If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

If they pulled me over for a minor traffic offense they probably wouldn't know I am carrying. I have an AZ CHL, I did get pulled over a few months ago and I did give the trooper my CHL and it confused the heck out of him. I told him how a Texas resident gets and Arizona CHL and he was really interested in that. Nice guy, gave me a warning for no front license plate, but after that I decided I am not mentioning it.

If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

If they pulled me over for a minor traffic offense they probably wouldn't know I am carrying. I have an AZ CHL, I did get pulled over a few months ago and I did give the trooper my CHL and it confused the heck out of him. I told him how a Texas resident gets and Arizona CHL and he was really interested in that. Nice guy, gave me a warning for no front license plate, but after that I decided I am not mentioning it.

If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

<EDIT>

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

Right, and I haven't had any official interaction with a peace officer outside of an occasional routine traffic stop, I don't engage in criminal activity and don't have any outstanding warrants so no reason for any stop on me to go any further. Considering the law is unconstitutional IMO when you look at Brown Vs. Texas and the legislature saw fit to not create a penalty for it I will continue to listen to my attorney. Just stating what the facts are and what I choose to do. Doesn't bother me if other CHL holders are eager to flash their CHL.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

If they pulled me over for a minor traffic offense they probably wouldn't know I am carrying. I have an AZ CHL, I did get pulled over a few months ago and I did give the trooper my CHL and it confused the heck out of him. I told him how a Texas resident gets and Arizona CHL and he was really interested in that. Nice guy, gave me a warning for no front license plate, but after that I decided I am not mentioning it.

If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

A law is still a law, and I choose to abide it, because I am a "Law Abiding Citizen." It's for your safety and the officers, it's not to incriminate you and/or place restrictions upon you. Watch what happens if an officer asks somebody if they have any weapons on there persons, and if they refused to show CHL, I am willing to bet big money they didn't escape a ticket...

OK let's examine the argument that it's for my safety and the officers. How is that considering the concealed weapon is no more or less dangerous to me when someone is talking to me or not. And since I intend no harm to any peace officer that happens to talk to me and all of my LEO friends tell me they assume everyone has a gun anyway how does it endanger either of us on a routine traffic stop if I don't pull out my CHL?

paxton25 wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

If they pulled me over for a minor traffic offense they probably wouldn't know I am carrying. I have an AZ CHL, I did get pulled over a few months ago and I did give the trooper my CHL and it confused the heck out of him. I told him how a Texas resident gets and Arizona CHL and he was really interested in that. Nice guy, gave me a warning for no front license plate, but after that I decided I am not mentioning it.

If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

A law is still a law, and I choose to abide it, because I am a "Law Abiding Citizen." It's for your safety and the officers, it's not to incriminate you and/or place restrictions upon you. Watch what happens if an officer asks somebody if they have any weapons on there persons, and if they refused to show CHL, I am willing to bet big money they didn't escape a ticket...

OK let's examine the argument that it's for my safety and the officers. How is that considering the concealed weapon is no more or less dangerous to me when someone is talking to me or not. And since I intend no harm to any peace officer that happens to talk to me and all of my LEO friends tell me they assume everyone has a gun anyway how does it endanger either of us on a routine traffic stop if I don't pull out my CHL?

Let me explain it like this then. I make a traffic stop on you, I approach you vehicle, I ask you how you are doing today, and may I please see your license and registration. Do I assume you have a weapon? NO. Do I prepare myself with the possibility that you may be armed and wanting to kill me? YES. Your failure to show me your CHL with your ID indicates to me that you willingly, knowingly, and intentionally kept the fact that you have a weapon on you a secret from me, is not a good way to start. I'm not saying anything against you for it, but I will be thinking in my mind, "What a d-bag, you're not going to skip by on this ticket." That is my honest opinion. Being straightforward and open is admirable, and shows trust to me. Somebody who doesn't want to say anything, is reluctant to provide information, or is in any other way a jerk, is going to make this an encounter end with a less desirable outcome. That is me, and I do not speak for any entity or group, but I assure you that there are other out there with this same mindset.

I am not intending to argue with, I just want you and others to know what doing this may get you. Exercise your rights how you want to, I will exercise them my own way. Stay safe.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

If they pulled me over for a minor traffic offense they probably wouldn't know I am carrying. I have an AZ CHL, I did get pulled over a few months ago and I did give the trooper my CHL and it confused the heck out of him. I told him how a Texas resident gets and Arizona CHL and he was really interested in that. Nice guy, gave me a warning for no front license plate, but after that I decided I am not mentioning it.

If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

A law is still a law, and I choose to abide it, because I am a "Law Abiding Citizen." It's for your safety and the officers, it's not to incriminate you and/or place restrictions upon you. Watch what happens if an officer asks somebody if they have any weapons on there persons, and if they refused to show CHL, I am willing to bet big money they didn't escape a ticket...

OK let's examine the argument that it's for my safety and the officers. How is that considering the concealed weapon is no more or less dangerous to me when someone is talking to me or not. And since I intend no harm to any peace officer that happens to talk to me and all of my LEO friends tell me they assume everyone has a gun anyway how does it endanger either of us on a routine traffic stop if I don't pull out my CHL?

Let me explain it like this then. I make a traffic stop on you, I approach you vehicle, I ask you how you are doing today, and may I please see your license and registration. Do I assume you have a weapon? NO. Do I prepare myself with the possibility that you may be armed and wanting to kill me? YES. Your failure to show me your CHL with your ID indicates to me that you willingly, knowingly, and intentionally kept the fact that you have a weapon on you a secret from me, is not a good way to start. I'm not saying anything against you for it, but I will be thinking in my mind, "What a d-bag, you're not going to skip by on this ticket." That is my honest opinion. Being straightforward and open is admirable, and shows trust to me. Somebody who doesn't want to say anything, is reluctant to provide information, or is in any other way a jerk, is going to make this an encounter end with a less desirable outcome. That is me, and I do not speak for any entity or group, but I assure you that there are other out there with this same mindset.

I am not intending to argue with, I just want you and others to know what doing this may get you. Exercise your rights how you want to, I will exercise them my own way. Stay safe.

And how would you know if I had an AZ CHL? Is it in the database when you run my plate? Seriously, just wanting to know how you would know that assuming you only had cause to give a minor speeding ticket or illegal lane change etc. Also, if I don't have a CHL and I have my pistol on the console am I required by law to disclose that when you stop me?

paxton25 wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

If they pulled me over for a minor traffic offense they probably wouldn't know I am carrying. I have an AZ CHL, I did get pulled over a few months ago and I did give the trooper my CHL and it confused the heck out of him. I told him how a Texas resident gets and Arizona CHL and he was really interested in that. Nice guy, gave me a warning for no front license plate, but after that I decided I am not mentioning it.

If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

A law is still a law, and I choose to abide it, because I am a "Law Abiding Citizen." It's for your safety and the officers, it's not to incriminate you and/or place restrictions upon you. Watch what happens if an officer asks somebody if they have any weapons on there persons, and if they refused to show CHL, I am willing to bet big money they didn't escape a ticket...

OK let's examine the argument that it's for my safety and the officers. How is that considering the concealed weapon is no more or less dangerous to me when someone is talking to me or not. And since I intend no harm to any peace officer that happens to talk to me and all of my LEO friends tell me they assume everyone has a gun anyway how does it endanger either of us on a routine traffic stop if I don't pull out my CHL?

Let me explain it like this then. I make a traffic stop on you, I approach you vehicle, I ask you how you are doing today, and may I please see your license and registration. Do I assume you have a weapon? NO. Do I prepare myself with the possibility that you may be armed and wanting to kill me? YES. Your failure to show me your CHL with your ID indicates to me that you willingly, knowingly, and intentionally kept the fact that you have a weapon on you a secret from me, is not a good way to start. I'm not saying anything against you for it, but I will be thinking in my mind, "What a d-bag, you're not going to skip by on this ticket." That is my honest opinion. Being straightforward and open is admirable, and shows trust to me. Somebody who doesn't want to say anything, is reluctant to provide information, or is in any other way a jerk, is going to make this an encounter end with a less desirable outcome. That is me, and I do not speak for any entity or group, but I assure you that there are other out there with this same mindset.

I am not intending to argue with, I just want you and others to know what doing this may get you. Exercise your rights how you want to, I will exercise them my own way. Stay safe.

And how would you know if I had an AZ CHL? Is it in the database when you run my plate? Seriously, just wanting to know how you would know that assuming you only had cause to give a minor speeding ticket or illegal lane change etc. Also, if I don't have a CHL and I have my pistol on the console am I required by law to disclose that when you stop me?

You are going by technicality of law and ignoring courtesy. I will not know, but should I ask you if have any weapons in your vehicle, and you say "YES", you are on my _______ list for not informing me. Granted you don't have to tell me crap is completely irrelevant. The fact is that I don't like when people withhold information from me. If you had your CCW on you, and I asked you to step out of the vehicle, what would you say? Would you continue step out having a CCW on your person without informing me? What does it hurt YOU to not to ME you have a gun? I really don't get it. If I'm exiting a door, and I see you about to enter it, I will hold it open it for you. If I closed the door as you walked up, that is lack of courtesy.

I will no know there is another gun involved, and should I find out for whatever reason, and you did not tell me, YOU would be the one at a loss with an encounter with me. Just saying, okay.

I also forgot to put on my previous post, asking if you have any weapons on you today. I failed to complete my previous post as intended.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

If they pulled me over for a minor traffic offense they probably wouldn't know I am carrying. I have an AZ CHL, I did get pulled over a few months ago and I did give the trooper my CHL and it confused the heck out of him. I told him how a Texas resident gets and Arizona CHL and he was really interested in that. Nice guy, gave me a warning for no front license plate, but after that I decided I am not mentioning it.

If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

A law is still a law, and I choose to abide it, because I am a "Law Abiding Citizen." It's for your safety and the officers, it's not to incriminate you and/or place restrictions upon you. Watch what happens if an officer asks somebody if they have any weapons on there persons, and if they refused to show CHL, I am willing to bet big money they didn't escape a ticket...

OK let's examine the argument that it's for my safety and the officers. How is that considering the concealed weapon is no more or less dangerous to me when someone is talking to me or not. And since I intend no harm to any peace officer that happens to talk to me and all of my LEO friends tell me they assume everyone has a gun anyway how does it endanger either of us on a routine traffic stop if I don't pull out my CHL?

Let me explain it like this then. I make a traffic stop on you, I approach you vehicle, I ask you how you are doing today, and may I please see your license and registration. Do I assume you have a weapon? NO. Do I prepare myself with the possibility that you may be armed and wanting to kill me? YES. Your failure to show me your CHL with your ID indicates to me that you willingly, knowingly, and intentionally kept the fact that you have a weapon on you a secret from me, is not a good way to start. I'm not saying anything against you for it, but I will be thinking in my mind, "What a d-bag, you're not going to skip by on this ticket." That is my honest opinion. Being straightforward and open is admirable, and shows trust to me. Somebody who doesn't want to say anything, is reluctant to provide information, or is in any other way a jerk, is going to make this an encounter end with a less desirable outcome. That is me, and I do not speak for any entity or group, but I assure you that there are other out there with this same mindset.

I am not intending to argue with, I just want you and others to know what doing this may get you. Exercise your rights how you want to, I will exercise them my own way. Stay safe.

And how would you know if I had an AZ CHL? Is it in the database when you run my plate? Seriously, just wanting to know how you would know that assuming you only had cause to give a minor speeding ticket or illegal lane change etc. Also, if I don't have a CHL and I have my pistol on the console am I required by law to disclose that when you stop me?

You are going by technicality of law and ignoring courtesy. I will not know, but should I ask you if have any weapons in your vehicle, and you say "YES", you are on my _______ list for not informing me. Granted you don't have to tell me crap is completely irrelevant. The fact is that I don't like when people withhold information from me. If you had your CCW on you, and I asked you to step out of the vehicle, what would you say? Would you continue step out having a CCW on your person without informing me? What does it hurt YOU to not to ME you have a gun? I really don't get it. If I'm exiting a door, and I see you about to enter it, I will hold it open it for you. If I closed the door as you walked up, that is lack of courtesy.

I will no know there is another gun involved, and should I find out for whatever reason, and you did not tell me, YOU would be the one at a loss with an encounter with me. Just saying, okay.

I also forgot to put on my previous post, asking if you have any weapons on you today. I failed to complete my previous post as intended.

Well wait a minute, please offer your insight as a peace officer on my questions first and I will be happy to answer yours, that is after all the way to have a courteous discussion. If you pulled me over for speeding 5mph over, ran my plate and it is not stolen, saw I had no warrants out for my arrest, insurance was current, nothing else suspicious how would you know I had an AZ CHL? And if I had a gun in the console and I didn't have a CHL am I required by law to disclose that to you without you asking? If not why would I have less protections for having a CHL vs. NOT having one?

paxton25 wrote:Well wait a minute, please offer your insight as a peace officer on my questions first and I will be happy to answer yours, that is after all the way to have a courteous discussion. If you pulled me over for speeding 5mph over, ran my plate and it is not stolen, saw I had no warrants out for my arrest, insurance was current, nothing else suspicious how would you know I had an AZ CHL? And if I had a gun in the console and I didn't have a CHL am I required by law to disclose that to you without you asking? If not why would I have less protections for having a CHL vs. NOT having one?

I'll break it down for more direct Q & A. But be advised, this is 100% IMO.

1) How would I know you had a AZ CHL?
Answer: I cannot know something without information. I would not know you had a ATM receipt in your pocket unless you told me, or I found out by searching you. You would be violating the law though, and should I ask you if you have any weapons on you, and you say yes, and I ask you if you have a License, and you say:

YES= You have violated the law, and it could possibly give an officer reasonable suspicion for [Blank]... You could get held up longer, and it's all depends on the officers discretion. You loss, you could've gone about your day already.

NO= You could possibly be asked to exit the vehicle for officer safety, then pat searched for officer safety. You could get to stand outside your vehicle and held up even longer for not volunteering the information.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... tm#411.205" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Texas Government Code wrote:Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

2) If I had a gun in the console, and I didn't have a CHL, am I required by law to disclose that to you without you asking?
Answer: You are not required to say anything about it.

3) If not, why would I have less protections from have a CHL vs. NOT having one?
Answer: You have the same protections. What are you unprotected from?

End story. It's your choice, but you will be violating the law should you have a CHL and not show your ID. Same for being in the vehicle or walking on the street. Only person that gets hurt by somebody refusing to show their ID, is them. (Possibly of course, because the officer may or may not ask questions.) I don't think we need to get into what happens if you lie to the officer. Any rebuttal or additional questions? Again, as I may have stated above though, everything is strictly my own opinion, and cannot be held completely factual.