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Considering the patchwork of reciprocity "agreements" that we currently have, I'd disagree. I'd wager that Shaneen Allen would vehemently disagree.rogersinsel wrote:As it is, there is no need for this bill.
That's my point. She went from a gun friendly zone to a gun free zone. I don't see as it stands now, how this bill would have helped her. States already are passing laws the countermand federal laws for a variety of reasons. In her case they would pursue charges under state law and ignore federal law just as they've already done. In the case of Mrs. Allen, there were many chances to set this right on so many levels, unfortunately, badges, law degrees and benches don't always translate into compassion, intellect and good judgement.TexasCajun wrote:Considering the patchwork of reciprocity "agreements" that we currently have, I'd disagree. I'd wager that Shaneen Allen would vehemently disagree.rogersinsel wrote:As it is, there is no need for this bill.
The proposed law would have certainly helped Ms Allen as it would require NJ to treat her PA license the same as a NJ license - therefore preventing her arrest and prosecution.rogersinsel wrote:That's my point. She went from a gun friendly zone to a gun free zone. I don't see as it stands now, how this bill would have helped her. States already are passing laws the countermand federal laws for a variety of reasons. In her case they would pursue charges under state law and ignore federal law just as they've already done. In the case of Mrs. Allen, there were many chances to set this right on so many levels, unfortunately, badges, law degrees and benches don't always translate into compassion, intellect and good judgement.TexasCajun wrote:Considering the patchwork of reciprocity "agreements" that we currently have, I'd disagree. I'd wager that Shaneen Allen would vehemently disagree.rogersinsel wrote:As it is, there is no need for this bill.
I agree, I went and re-read her story. I thought she had crossed into New York, instead it was New Jersey. Relating to the proposed bill, what mechanism would it use to force compliance?TexasCajun wrote:The proposed law would have certainly helped Ms Allen as it would require NJ to treat her PA license the same as a NJ license - therefore preventing her arrest and prosecution.rogersinsel wrote:That's my point. She went from a gun friendly zone to a gun free zone. I don't see as it stands now, how this bill would have helped her. States already are passing laws the countermand federal laws for a variety of reasons. In her case they would pursue charges under state law and ignore federal law just as they've already done. In the case of Mrs. Allen, there were many chances to set this right on so many levels, unfortunately, badges, law degrees and benches don't always translate into compassion, intellect and good judgement.TexasCajun wrote:Considering the patchwork of reciprocity "agreements" that we currently have, I'd disagree. I'd wager that Shaneen Allen would vehemently disagree.rogersinsel wrote:As it is, there is no need for this bill.
Right now, discussion is centering on either the interstate commerce clause or the full faith & credit clause of the US Constitution. I suppose we'd have to wait until the law actually passes and then challenged to see what the actual enforcement would look like.rogersinsel wrote:I agree, I went and re-read her story. I thought she had crossed into New York, instead it was New Jersey. Relating to the proposed bill, what mechanism would it use to force compliance?TexasCajun wrote:The proposed law would have certainly helped Ms Allen as it would require NJ to treat her PA license the same as a NJ license - therefore preventing her arrest and prosecution.rogersinsel wrote:That's my point. She went from a gun friendly zone to a gun free zone. I don't see as it stands now, how this bill would have helped her. States already are passing laws the countermand federal laws for a variety of reasons. In her case they would pursue charges under state law and ignore federal law just as they've already done. In the case of Mrs. Allen, there were many chances to set this right on so many levels, unfortunately, badges, law degrees and benches don't always translate into compassion, intellect and good judgement.TexasCajun wrote:Considering the patchwork of reciprocity "agreements" that we currently have, I'd disagree. I'd wager that Shaneen Allen would vehemently disagree.rogersinsel wrote:As it is, there is no need for this bill.
I agree that the reasoning I posted is too broad. Yet, current interpretation by the USSC is even more broad than that. Read Wickard v. Filburn and Gonzales v. Raich. There's very little limit on what can be considered "interstate commerce". In your example, an argument would be that by buying a firearm made in Texas, you then decreased the market for firearms made outside Texas by one firearm. Bam, there's your effect on interstate commerce. You wouldn't even have to take it to another state.srothstein wrote:I think you just jumped to a conclusion that is way too broad. Suppose I live in Dallas and I go to Oklahoma City to visit my brother. Since my truck has an extra large gas tank, I can make it there and back without stopping for gas. My only stop is at my brother's house. I happen to be carrying my STI 1911 made in Georgetown with me when I go. How has my Texas made pistol been in interstate commerce when no commerce occurred on the trip?If a Texan takes a firearm made in Texas to another state, then that firearm has been shipped or transported in interstate commerce.
According to uncle Sam, just the fact that the materials used to build the pistol might crossed state lines at some point justifies regulating end use of the pistol. That is their "justification" for the GFSZ act.CleverNickname wrote:I agree that the reasoning I posted is too broad. Yet, current interpretation by the USSC is even more broad than that. Read Wickard v. Filburn and Gonzales v. Raich. There's very little limit on what can be considered "interstate commerce". In your example, an argument would be that by buying a firearm made in Texas, you then decreased the market for firearms made outside Texas by one firearm. Bam, there's your effect on interstate commerce. You wouldn't even have to take it to another state.srothstein wrote:I think you just jumped to a conclusion that is way too broad. Suppose I live in Dallas and I go to Oklahoma City to visit my brother. Since my truck has an extra large gas tank, I can make it there and back without stopping for gas. My only stop is at my brother's house. I happen to be carrying my STI 1911 made in Georgetown with me when I go. How has my Texas made pistol been in interstate commerce when no commerce occurred on the trip?If a Texan takes a firearm made in Texas to another state, then that firearm has been shipped or transported in interstate commerce.
New York does issue licenses. In fact all 50 States now issue licenses. Some, like NY, are "may issue". But as I read it, NY and every other State would be required to honor my TX CHL if this Bill passes. I would be subject to local laws regarding place and manner, but not any more stringent than as applied to a NY-issued licensee.rogersinsel wrote:I agree, I went and re-read her story. I thought she had crossed into New York, instead it was New Jersey. Relating to the proposed bill, what mechanism would it use to force compliance?
You're talking about just concealed carry, right? Open-carry presents some differences between states. For example, if I travel to Oklahoma with my Texas CHL, their open-carry laws don't apply to me. I have to remain concealed because that's what my Texas license says.RoyGBiv wrote:New York does issue licenses. In fact all 50 States now issue licenses. Some, like NY, are "may issue". But as I read it, NY and every other State would be required to honor my TX CHL if this Bill passes. I would be subject to local laws regarding place and manner, but not any more stringent than as applied to a NY-issued licensee.rogersinsel wrote:I agree, I went and re-read her story. I thought she had crossed into New York, instead it was New Jersey. Relating to the proposed bill, what mechanism would it use to force compliance?
Are you sure about the OK open carry law not applying to Texans when in OK?K5GU wrote:You're talking about just concealed carry, right? Open-carry presents some differences between states. For example, if I travel to Oklahoma with my Texas CHL, their open-carry laws don't apply to me. I have to remain concealed because that's what my Texas license says.RoyGBiv wrote:New York does issue licenses. In fact all 50 States now issue licenses. Some, like NY, are "may issue". But as I read it, NY and every other State would be required to honor my TX CHL if this Bill passes. I would be subject to local laws regarding place and manner, but not any more stringent than as applied to a NY-issued licensee.rogersinsel wrote:I agree, I went and re-read her story. I thought she had crossed into New York, instead it was New Jersey. Relating to the proposed bill, what mechanism would it use to force compliance?
It's called the Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, so yes this bill deals with concealed carry.K5GU wrote:You're talking about just concealed carry, right? Open-carry presents some differences between states. For example, if I travel to Oklahoma with my Texas CHL, their open-carry laws don't apply to me. I have to remain concealed because that's what my Texas license says.RoyGBiv wrote:New York does issue licenses. In fact all 50 States now issue licenses. Some, like NY, are "may issue". But as I read it, NY and every other State would be required to honor my TX CHL if this Bill passes. I would be subject to local laws regarding place and manner, but not any more stringent than as applied to a NY-issued licensee.rogersinsel wrote:I agree, I went and re-read her story. I thought she had crossed into New York, instead it was New Jersey. Relating to the proposed bill, what mechanism would it use to force compliance?
The way I read it is, right now, I can carry any way an Oklahoman can provided I have a state issued license from a reciprocal state...K5GU wrote:You're talking about just concealed carry, right? Open-carry presents some differences between states. For example, if I travel to Oklahoma with my Texas CHL, their open-carry laws don't apply to me. I have to remain concealed because that's what my Texas license says.RoyGBiv wrote:New York does issue licenses. In fact all 50 States now issue licenses. Some, like NY, are "may issue". But as I read it, NY and every other State would be required to honor my TX CHL if this Bill passes. I would be subject to local laws regarding place and manner, but not any more stringent than as applied to a NY-issued licensee.rogersinsel wrote:I agree, I went and re-read her story. I thought she had crossed into New York, instead it was New Jersey. Relating to the proposed bill, what mechanism would it use to force compliance?
Oklahoma AG clarified last year that an out-of-state licensee from a state w/ reciprocity has the same OC rights as an Oklahoman with a CHL in Oklahoma.K5GU wrote:You're talking about just concealed carry, right? Open-carry presents some differences between states. For example, if I travel to Oklahoma with my Texas CHL, their open-carry laws don't apply to me. I have to remain concealed because that's what my Texas license says.RoyGBiv wrote:New York does issue licenses. In fact all 50 States now issue licenses. Some, like NY, are "may issue". But as I read it, NY and every other State would be required to honor my TX CHL if this Bill passes. I would be subject to local laws regarding place and manner, but not any more stringent than as applied to a NY-issued licensee.rogersinsel wrote:I agree, I went and re-read her story. I thought she had crossed into New York, instead it was New Jersey. Relating to the proposed bill, what mechanism would it use to force compliance?