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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:20 am
by Liberty
jason wrote:Perhaps the DA didn't prosecute because something was not handled correctly. It sounds like there was a lot of evidence and such to deal with. Was it possible that the ammunition was not returned because ownership couldn't be clearly identified?
Might there have been some confusion with regards to the terminology used by the officer? Perhaps he stated the ammunition couldn't be returned because it was potential evidence in a crime?
All any of us can do is speculate, since we were not there. I find it interesting how many people jumped on the 'bad cop' bandwagon immediately.
As the story was originally told it was reasonable to believe the cop just took it. It wasn't an unreasonable jump in logic. We were told the Cop claimed that hollow points were illegal.
It would be a huge jump in logic to believe that that a Texas Cop actually believed this. Cops have confiscated and kept stuff for their own uses for years. I've personally known cops who had kept guns, booze and drugs. I left a city to move to Texas in the middle of a scandal where the Chief was convicted for stealing cocaine out of the evidence room (Brockton Ma.) It does happen.
While we all understand the vast majority of officers would never do such a thing. The petty type thefts do happen. Assuming that the information that we had was true. The cops either had to be painfully uninformed or crooked. As it turned out it was the information we had that was faulty.
The bad cops of Tulia and Atlanta would never have been exposed if citizens didn't ask questions and put pressure to look a little deeper. The first reactions in Brockton. Tulia and Atlanta was to the circle wagons.
Yeah, it looks we were inadvertantly given some bad information. The police officers did some pretty decent work. and got the guns returned and away from the bad guys.
If an LEO is the recipient of a fishy story I would expect them to ask a few questions. Shouldn't we look at such storys with the same type of suspicion? Is it so wrong to insist that LEOs be held the same level of accountability that most of us are held to?
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:03 am
by BadCo45ACP
Liberty wrote:As the story was originally told it was reasonable to believe the cop just took it. It wasn't an unreasonable jump in logic. We were told the Cop claimed that hollow points were illegal.
Tommy B wrote:What baffled me though was that when he went to claim his items at the police precinct, they confiscated his hollow point bullets and told him they were illegal to use for carry.
I'm sorry but don't see anything in Tommy B's statement that justifies accusations of theft or intentional wrong doing. Based on what and how stated above, it could even have been a civilian clerk rather than an officer, with out any idea of where the bullets were, who returned the items and as a result conjectured as to why they weren't being returned.
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:04 am
by Lucky45
I was following this post recently, lost track and was searching all night and finally found it. But anyway, I was brushing up on the new CHL laws and found what I think is the answer to a scenario similar to what was originally posted.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE
LGC §229.001. FIREARMS; EXPLOSIVES. (a) A municipality may not adopt regulations relating to the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation, licensing, or registration of firearms, ammunition, or firearm supplies.(b) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under another law to:
(1) require residents or public employees to be armed for personal or national defense, law enforcement, or another lawful purpose;
(2) regulate the discharge of firearms within the limits of the municipality;
(3) regulate the use of property, the location of a business, or uses at a business under the municipality's fire code, zoning ordinance, or land-use regulations as long as the code, ordinance, or regulations are not used to circumvent the intent of Subsection (a) or Subdivision (5) of this subsection;
(4) regulate the use of firearms in the case of an insurrection, riot, or natural disaster if the municipality finds the regulations necessary to protect public health and safety;
(5) regulate the storage or transportation of explosives to protect public health and safety, except that 25 pounds or less of black powder for each private residence and 50 pounds or less of black powder for each retail dealer are not subject to regulation; or
(6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:
(A) public park;
(B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;
(C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or
(D) nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.
(c) The exception provided by Subsection (b)(6) does not apply if the firearm is in or is carried to or from an area designated for use in a lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting event and the firearm is of the type commonly used in the activity.
So if you are disarmed and your ammunition is confiscated, then you know what to say and do.
Re: Hollow Point Amunition
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:05 am
by dukalmighty
What if the ammunition in question were black talon hollowpoins which i believe have been banned
Re: Hollow Point Amunition
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:38 am
by Mike1951
dukalmighty wrote:What if the ammunition in question were black talon hollowpoins which i believe have been banned
They weren't banned and I know of no hollowpoint that has ever been banned.
Winchester was simply getting bad PR so they pulled them and replaced with Winchester Ranger SXT, which is the same bullet.
Re: Hollow Point Amunition
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:33 am
by lws380
If my weapon was stolen and I got it back without ammo, I'd be tickled pink.
Re: Hollow Point Amunition
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:09 am
by shootthesheet
First of all, tell your buddy to get a car safe or lock box that is bolted to the car. "Smash and grab" targets things like backpacks and purses. Never leave a gun in a backpack if it is not being carried. I don't know why a CHL holder, if he is one, would not have the gun with him or locked up in a safe or box so criminals do not have immediate access to it. Just an observation.
If a LEO takes my ammo I will raise a stink about it. I will do it the official and polite way but I will not let it go until my ammo is returned or I receive an apology that my property was stolen. Policy means nothing to me. That is my property and I will fight to get it back. If the department won't let me have it I will go to the press and web. There is no legitimate reason for them to keep property that is no longer needed for the case. None. I wouldn't let them keep cash from my stolen and recovered wallet and I will not let them have $20 in ammo.
That said, God bless the majority of LEOs that are good. They truly are a gift. That is why we need to run everyone that is not good out.
Re: Hollow Point Amunition
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:03 pm
by DoubleJ
Mike1951 wrote:dukalmighty wrote:What if the ammunition in question were black talon hollowpoins which i believe have been banned
They weren't banned and I know of no hollowpoint that has ever been banned.
Winchester was simply getting bad PR so they pulled them and replaced with Winchester Ranger SXT, which is the same bullet.
SXT = Same Xact Thing
Re: Hollow Point Amunition
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:30 pm
by Deaf Smith
Even in New Jersy the hollowpoints are only banned if you are commiting an illegal act (and that includes an unregistered gun.)
1000 buck fine per bullet in New Jersey.
As for the cop, maybe he came from an eastern state. But still, I doubt he would not know hollowpoints are quite legal, and in fact the DPS at the CHL classes were all for recommending them to CHL holders.
Something stinks. I'd go back and talk to the Chief (and wear a mike!)