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longtooth wrote:Yea buddy. 1911 Cocked & locked the way they were designed to be. All others nedd to have one ready to go. If you need your gun, your other hand may be busy fighting.

Same here, 1911 on cock and lock, just as John Moses intended................

Seems that Mr Browning's original design didn't even have a thumb safety. It was added to meet the Army's design criteria. And since the Army taught the weapon to be carried in "condition 3" until needed....... wouldn't it make sense to say that Mr Browning designed the gun to be carried in "condition 3"? And the thumb safety is a way to easily make the gun "safe" for short periods of time?

SCone wrote:Seems that Mr Browning's original design didn't even have a thumb safety. It was added to meet the Army's design criteria. And since the Army taught the weapon to be carried in "condition 3" until needed....... wouldn't it make sense to say that Mr Browning designed the gun to be carried in "condition 3"? And the thumb safety is a way to easily make the gun "safe" for short periods of time?

Why not Condition 2?

WildBill wrote:

SCone wrote:Seems that Mr Browning's original design didn't even have a thumb safety. It was added to meet the Army's design criteria. And since the Army taught the weapon to be carried in "condition 3" until needed....... wouldn't it make sense to say that Mr Browning designed the gun to be carried in "condition 3"? And the thumb safety is a way to easily make the gun "safe" for short periods of time?

Why not Condition 2?

Condition 2 is fine for a SIG or others with a decocker but with a 1911 you have to press the trigger on a loaded pistol when you don't want to shoot. It's safer to keep it in condition 1.

Bart wrote:

WildBill wrote:

SCone wrote:Seems that Mr Browning's original design didn't even have a thumb safety. It was added to meet the Army's design criteria. And since the Army taught the weapon to be carried in "condition 3" until needed....... wouldn't it make sense to say that Mr Browning designed the gun to be carried in "condition 3"? And the thumb safety is a way to easily make the gun "safe" for short periods of time?

Why not Condition 2?

Condition 2 is fine for a SIG or others with a decocker but with a 1911 you have to press the trigger on a loaded pistol when you don't want to shoot. It's safer to keep it in condition 1.

I am comparing Condition 2 versus Condition 3.

A simple slide rack and you go from condition 3 to condition 0 when the time comes.

KaiserB wrote:Not meaning to toss fuel on the fire. I can understand having one in the pipe with a 1911, or a SA/DA auto (HK, Ruger, S&W) with thumb safety. But what about guns such as a Glock or Springfield XD that are DAO that do not have a thumb safety, or other lockout (besides the trigger safety)?

My XD 45 Compact isn't DAO, it's SA. It has a long trigger pull and is striker fired, but the slide must be racked to cock it before it will fire. I keep it with one in the pipe, just like my 1911.

It has a trigger safety (sorta like the Glock one), and a grip safety like the 1911. You have to grip it securely AND pull the trigger properly to fire it. The newer models are available with a thumb safety, but my understanding is that it is a configuration developed for some police departments and for the US Military (who won't even consider a pistol without a thumb safety - even a Glock would need one to qualify for testing) to meet their requirements, not because of any inherent flaw in the original design. I believe that the original will continue to be available for those who don't want the extra (fourth) safety.

A safety is only a mechanical supplement to the REAL safety between your ears. If you don't finger the trigger until you want to shoot, it won't go bang.

SCone wrote:Seems that Mr Browning's original design didn't even have a thumb safety. It was added to meet the Army's design criteria. And since the Army taught the weapon to be carried in "condition 3" until needed....... wouldn't it make sense to say that Mr Browning designed the gun to be carried in "condition 3"? And the thumb safety is a way to easily make the gun "safe" for short periods of time?

No, it is designed to have the grip safety so that it won't fire accidentally. The thumb safety is simply another layer, as is carrying in condition 3. It is actually more safe in its original design than many revolvers of the same period if the revolver was carried with a round under the hammer, since it actually HAD a safety in the grip!

WildBill wrote:

Bart wrote:Condition 2 is fine for a SIG or others with a decocker but with a 1911 you have to press the trigger on a loaded pistol when you don't want to shoot. It's safer to keep it in condition 1.

I am comparing Condition 2 versus Condition 3.

OK. To get a 1911 into condition 2, you have to press the trigger on a loaded pistol when you don't want to shoot.

Bart wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Bart wrote:Condition 2 is fine for a SIG or others with a decocker but with a 1911 you have to press the trigger on a loaded pistol when you don't want to shoot. It's safer to keep it in condition 1.

I am comparing Condition 2 versus Condition 3.

OK. To get a 1911 into condition 2, you have to press the trigger on a loaded pistol when you don't want to shoot.

This is true. Some would argue that this can be done safely.

WildBill wrote:

Bart wrote:

WildBill wrote: I am comparing Condition 2 versus Condition 3.

OK. To get a 1911 into condition 2, you have to press the trigger on a loaded pistol when you don't want to shoot.

This is true. Some would argue that this can be done safely.

Of course it can be done safely.

At a range, while pointed down range, while wearing proper ear and eye protection.

All of my pistols, all of the time. (Cleaning time excluded of course)

Guess I'll never understand???

Here's how I go from condition 3 to condition 1

With my gun in condition 3 (no round in chamber, full magazine)
ONE - Pull trigger
TWO - Rack slide
THREE - Engage safety
FOUR - Release trigger
I'm now in condition 1 (round in chamber, hammer cocked, safety on)

The gun could only fire during step TWO if the slide slips out of your hand AND the half-cock were to shear. Not likely since the slide is blocking the hammer from falling at full speed. So at worst case, the hammer drops to the half-cock position with reduced force.

Mithras61 wrote:My XD 45 Compact isn't DAO, it's SA. It has a long trigger pull and is striker fired, but the slide must be racked to cock it before it will fire. I keep it with one in the pipe, just like my 1911.

If the firing mechanism on the XD is like a Glock then the gun is DAO. The trigger pull actually pushes the firing pin back and releases the firing pin. The trigger can not reset itself without the slide coming back, but it is still not considered a SA like the 1911's.

WillieD wrote:

Mithras61 wrote:My XD 45 Compact isn't DAO, it's SA. It has a long trigger pull and is striker fired, but the slide must be racked to cock it before it will fire. I keep it with one in the pipe, just like my 1911.

If the firing mechanism on the XD is like a Glock then the gun is DAO. The trigger pull actually pushes the firing pin back and releases the firing pin. The trigger can not reset itself without the slide coming back, but it is still not considered a SA like the 1911's.

According to Springfield's website...

The XD mechanism completely cocks (preloads) the spring-charged firing pin so that the only function provided by the trigger pull is to release the sear and fire the gun. By contrast, the Glock "Safe Action" only partly preloads the firing mechanism, and the trigger pull physically completes the cocking action as well as releasing the firing pin. The XD is therefore a true "single-action" trigger design because its trigger only performs one function--releasing the firing mechanism. The Glock is a true "double-action" trigger design in that its trigger contributes to the actual cocking of the mechanism as well as releasing it.