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Bravo to Xtreme.45 and Lonewolf!!!
Very Well Said.

Thanks

Thought all would be interested in knowing that the Heartland mall owners and managers have agreed to place the "UNLICENSED firearms forbidden" signs up. They have been ordered and are waiting for them to come in. Although there are plenty of anti-gun folks out there, we must not assume that all people who put up improper signs are either anti-gun or unwilling to change if properly educated. As a preacher, I long ago decided to educate folks on right and wrong be it God's laws or man's.
Here's to a happy resolution
Wayne

wgoforth wrote:Thought all would be interested in knowing that the Heartland mall owners and managers have agreed to place the "UNLICENSED firearms forbidden" signs up. They have been ordered and are waiting for them to come in. Although there are plenty of anti-gun folks out there, we must not assume that all people who put up improper signs are either anti-gun or unwilling to change if properly educated. As a preacher, I long ago decided to educate folks on right and wrong be it God's laws or man's.
Here's to a happy resolution
Wayne

Great news Wayne. Good job of getting them to put up signs and clearing up the understanding of CHL'ers carrying.

KD5NRH wrote:

SlowDave wrote:: does a cop have to have any kind of reasonable cause to ask you for your ID, or can they just walk up to any Tom, Dick, or Harry and say, "I'm bored, gimmee your license to read."?

Reasonable articulable suspicion isn't going to be too tough to come up with in a mall. The car keys in your pocket could look like an easily shoplifted item, you could match a vague description of someone they're looking for, etc.

Appreciate the opinion, but can any LEOs post up on this? (Or are you an LEO, kd5nrh?) I'm thinking having something in your pocket would not justify "reasonable suspicion of shoplifting" since pretty much every member of the human race has something in their pockets. Having a car does not justify reasonable suspicion of searching your car for pot, even though cars have been known to carry pot.

So, sorry for thread-wandering, but can anyone answer the question about whether there is any hurdle of "reasonable suspicion" or similar for an LEO to ask for your ID if you're just walking around minding your own business? Or are they legal to just ask anyone at any time with no reason needed whatsoever?

SlowDave wrote:

KD5NRH wrote:

SlowDave wrote:: does a cop have to have any kind of reasonable cause to ask you for your ID, or can they just walk up to any Tom, Dick, or Harry and say, "I'm bored, gimmee your license to read."?

Reasonable articulable suspicion isn't going to be too tough to come up with in a mall. The car keys in your pocket could look like an easily shoplifted item, you could match a vague description of someone they're looking for, etc.

Appreciate the opinion, but can any LEOs post up on this? (Or are you an LEO, kd5nrh?) I'm thinking having something in your pocket would not justify "reasonable suspicion of shoplifting" since pretty much every member of the human race has something in their pockets. Having a car does not justify reasonable suspicion of searching your car for pot, even though cars have been known to carry pot.

So, sorry for thread-wandering, but can anyone answer the question about whether there is any hurdle of "reasonable suspicion" or similar for an LEO to ask for your ID if you're just walking around minding your own business? Or are they legal to just ask anyone at any time with no reason needed whatsoever?

SlowDave...since both the mall owners and the LEO's here were under the misguided understanding that the mall was a "no gun zone" then it would seem they would have had a right (IF they were correct) to ask if that was a weapon in your pocket, fanny pack, etc. Rather than get everyone going again about what concealed means, let's just rejoice that the mall manager/owner decided in favor of us rather than posting a 30.06!
Wayne

Having lived in that area, I don't recall any anti gun sentiment at all. Perhaps it was just the circle I travelled in..........It was nothing unusual in those days for half the trucks in the student parking lots at the high schools to have shotguns/rifles in the back windows. Times gone by, I guess......

lonewolf wrote:Having lived in that area, I don't recall any anti gun sentiment at all. Perhaps it was just the circle I travelled in..........It was nothing unusual in those days for half the trucks in the student parking lots at the high schools to have shotguns/rifles in the back windows. Times gone by, I guess......

I don't know that it is anti-gun here, but maybe more a lack of interest and knowledge. I mean, when even the LEO's did not know about 30.06 is pretty behind. Here we are the largest shopping area to a population of 75,000 and no indoor range, only a couple of not so good outdoor ones. Only one gun store and it is higher than a cat's back (not including the pawn shops). Most people here drive to Abilene for chl classes (hour and a half north). But then, we are closer to AUSTIN than we were when we lived in Abilene, lol. I suspect guys didn't cruise Coggin park looking for other guys or look for same sex rendezvous at Riverside Park back then either. Times they are a changing
Wayne

It is good to hear it worked out in your favor.

Yeah, it was a whole different era. We actually cruised downtown around the courthouse back then. Weakley Watson was the only hardware store in town, and the Piggly Wiggly was going strong. Gordon Wood was still coaching the Lions. Sounds like a place I need to go and open up a shooting range and do chl classes. I remember when the Brownwood "T" used to be a circle.....

And just because I'm wearing a galco fanny pack doesn't mean that it actually has a weapon in it. It might, but you can't be sure without looking inside.

C-dub wrote:And just because I'm wearing a galco fanny pack doesn't mean that it actually has a weapon in it. It might, but you can't be sure without looking inside.

Right! So now we're all happy that no uneducated LEO's in this matter will ask!

lonewolf wrote:Yeah, it was a whole different era. We actually cruised downtown around the courthouse back then. Weakley Watson was the only hardware store in town, and the Piggly Wiggly was going strong. Gordon Wood was still coaching the Lions. Sounds like a place I need to go and open up a shooting range and do chl classes. I remember when the Brownwood "T" used to be a circle.....

Digressing yet further.... yup, Weakley Watson is still there. Their sports store is the only gunshop in town. Our house was built by and occupied by the owner of Weakley Watson back in 1952. Home Depot, Higginbothoms and McCoys is also here. No Piggly Wiggly now, but do have Walmart, Kroger and Brookshires. Coach Shippley moved here from somewhere in the metro this summer. His dad is a long time preacher down in Burnet. Would love to have a decent range open up. I could help if you were serious in that. I have thought about instructing here myself (hey, church discipline takes on many forms, lol).
Wayne

Let me make a few phone calls and see what I can drum up........my poor little noggin is working overtime on this one. Having been laid off twice in the last 18 months it wouldn't hurt my feelings any to have a little income. (not starving, but not happy, either....)

wgoforth wrote:Just recently moved to Brownwood, TX. Waaaaaaaay into the mall is a "Mall Etiquette" sign, that way down the list states "no weapons, legal or illegal." I realize that it is not the proper sign nor properly displayed, but still doesn't mean one could not get hassled about it, be asked to leave or even have cops called on them. I called the Property Manager's office of the mall and was informed that it is intended to include CHL holders. I informed her that there must be a properly displayed 30.06 sign. She said that this was to keep store owners and patrons from being nervous if they thought someone might have one. Of course if they thought I did, then it wasn't concealed properly. Of course signs like this ONLY affect the good guys as bad guys could care less about the signs. Now that they have informed me that I cannot carry, do I continue to ignore the sign or vote with my feet? BTW, the mall is having most of their stores to move to the currently closed strip mall anyway soon.
Thanks
Wayne

Wayne,

If you know what the law is, why would you try to put yourself against it? I am just confused here.

I am glad it has turned out the way it has, but it could have as easily gone the other way.

I will TRY to clear this once again. YES, I know the law on this...this isn't a typical case of a store improperly posting. I have snickered at many improper postings as I kept walking...This is a case where the store AND the LEO's who provide the security were claiming it to be a "no gun zone." With that in mind, I did not wish to risk an LEO asking "can I see in your pouch" (pocket, fanny pack, etc). YES, I could get off...but not until I have taken a ride and hired a lawyer since even the LEO's were misinformed. Had a 30.06 gone up instead, I am convinced that in this small town there would have been such an outcry they would have been forced to remove it. As I have said before, if I had the attitude of letting people get away with wrong thoughts and actions, I should never have become a gospel preacher. I decided to risk that educating them would help them act properly...and it did. I only jumped back in to show the positive outcome educating folks could have and I have caught rain on this.
Peace out everyone, ok??

txbirddog wrote:

wgoforth wrote:Just recently moved to Brownwood, TX. Waaaaaaaay into the mall is a "Mall Etiquette" sign, that way down the list states "no weapons, legal or illegal." I realize that it is not the proper sign nor properly displayed, but still doesn't mean one could not get hassled about it, be asked to leave or even have cops called on them. I called the Property Manager's office of the mall and was informed that it is intended to include CHL holders. I informed her that there must be a properly displayed 30.06 sign. She said that this was to keep store owners and patrons from being nervous if they thought someone might have one. Of course if they thought I did, then it wasn't concealed properly. Of course signs like this ONLY affect the good guys as bad guys could care less about the signs. Now that they have informed me that I cannot carry, do I continue to ignore the sign or vote with my feet? BTW, the mall is having most of their stores to move to the currently closed strip mall anyway soon.
Thanks
Wayne

Wayne,

If you know what the law is, why would you try to put yourself against it? I am just confused here.

I am glad it has turned out the way it has, but it could have as easily gone the other way.