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Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:25 am
by TLynnHughes
marksiwel wrote:Would I right a term paper based on a wiki article, no. But the Wiki articles I posted pointed to specific things I was referencing.
Unless you want me to grab History text books and scan them into the Computer and then we can read hundreds of pages together. But wait,
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/campusnot ... book-wrong" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Text Books can be wrong too! Oh no!
Sky Diver Rick also said he wouldn't accept links from CNN, if you think CNN is too biased, I would also say you shouldnt accept links from Fox News, MSNBC, or AP.
So we cant take Text books or Major news Papers or Wikipedia articles., well what else have we got then? How about Self Run Websites? Oh wait, anyone could just write anything right?
So, I guess we will just have to accept badly written text books, Wikipedia articles and news organizations, and point out errors as we see them instead of sending out blanket statements saying X,Y or Z, is wrong. That is unless you havent been doing this your whole life and just been accepting everything you read as true, if so I highly suggest you sign up for the New York Times, you're the kind of Reader they are looking for
Moving on...
Anyone care to prove that anything I said is false? Anyone? I'll even let you quote from Wikipedia
I'll accept anything as fact that has a resource trail that I can confirm or my own (such as many textbooks) or comes from an eyewitness. Other than that, I'm always skeptical to a point.
T.
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:08 am
by The Annoyed Man
marksewil wrote:Regardless.
You think "France" owes us for what they thought was an unjust war? They disagreed with our reasons for going to war, yes they arent the best Ally but there are still a major military force in Europe and we treated them, poorly.
Let me start first by saying that I hold dual citizenship, U.S. and French, my mother is French, I was born in French territory, and all of my mother's side of the family still live in France, etc., etc., and I think that some of the common criticisms of France a somewhat overblown.
That said, here is a fact: France had long standing oil and military sales relationships with Iraq, including with Saddam Hussein:
- 1981: Mitterand considers helping Iraq to rebuild reactor bombed by Israelis, and France sells Mirage fighter jets to Iraq.
- Predating Operation Iraqi Freedom, France (and Russia) had huge oil contracts with Iraq at very favorable terms. The two most vocally opposed major powers to a U.S. invasion of Iraq were France and Russia. [In fact, just before the invasion, Russia sold Iraq latest generation night vision goggles and GPS jamming equipment (both calculated to offset a U.S. battlefield advantage), but Russia is a separate issue.]
- InternationalReview.org:
France has passionately and poetically pleaded its opposition to invading Iraq supposedly out of an unshakable love for peace. In reality, France opposes an American invasion largely because it has been trading with Iraq for years, even with U.N. sanctions in place. France has billions of dollars in oil contracts in Iraq and wants to keep its status as most-favored nation. France has made it known that if they can keep their existing contracts, they would likely approve a U.S. invasion. In July 2001 Baghdad announced that French firms would no longer have preferential status as at the time France favored the so-called 'smart sanctions' program.
All of this is to say that France had profit driven motives for being against the war in Iraq, having nothing to do with France being a peaceful nation. Just ask Greenpeace
if they think France is a peaceful nation. (OK, this last one came from Wikipedia, but it appears to be accurate in its particulars.)
BTW, in doing research for non-Wiki sources, I ran across this unrelated gem about Mitterand. Skip down to the last paragraph and see if it doesn't remind you of a certain current U.S. President. In that article, Mitterand is described as a Socialist, which he was, and which he proudly admitted:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1148545
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:54 am
by 74novaman
TAM, thanks for digging up the actual citations for what I was saying. Anyone who thinks France was objecting on moral grounds is naive as heck.
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:22 pm
by SkydiverRick
marksiwel wrote:SkydiverRick wrote:SkydiverRick wrote:marksiwel wrote:SkydiverRick wrote:Wikipedia is not a reliable source.
*sigh*
What is?
Are you seriously trying to pass Wikipedia off as a reliable source? I can get on there right now an add any "facts" that I'd like. I'd trust CNN first.
Like I said, tell me a Source that you trust.
Care to point out anything in the Wiki articles that are False?
I think you are just trying to change the subject because you know I'm right.
What a prime example of liberal projection. Accusing me of precisely what you are doing. You say that 406,000 dead American servicemen is inconsequential and when I call you on it, you turn the conversation to the accuracy of wikipedia.
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:30 pm
by chartreuse
74novaman wrote:TAM, thanks for digging up the actual citations for what I was saying. Anyone who thinks France was objecting on moral grounds is naive as heck.
Yep, Thanks TAM. I think the economic argument there is pretty clear cut.
That said, in marksewil's defence, it seems to me that all he's doing is practising the second (and oft forgotten) part of "My country, may she always be right, but my country right or wrong." It's the part that reads "When right, to keep her right and when wrong, to put her right".
Seems to me that statements like "Sorry, like I said, I'm not into bashing the USA." or "You say that 406,000 dead American servicemen is inconsequential" are deeply unfair to him, to say the least.
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:33 pm
by SkydiverRick
chartreuse wrote:74novaman wrote:TAM, thanks for digging up the actual citations for what I was saying. Anyone who thinks France was objecting on moral grounds is naive as heck.
Yep, Thanks TAM. I think the economic argument there is pretty clear cut.
That said, in marksewil's defence, it seems to me that all he's doing is practising the second (and oft forgotten) part of "My country, may she always be right, but my country right or wrong." It's the part that reads "When right, to keep her right and when wrong, to put her right".
Seems to me that statements like "Sorry, like I said, I'm not into bashing the USA." or "You say that 406,000 dead American servicemen is inconsequential" are deeply unfair to him, to say the least.
I guess that we shouldn't let a little thing like the truth stand in the way of fairness.
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:53 pm
by marksiwel
SkydiverRick wrote:
What a prime example of liberal projection. Accusing me of precisely what you are doing. You say that 406,000 dead American servicemen is inconsequential and when I call you on it, you turn the conversation to the accuracy of wikipedia.
That would be great if I was a liberal ,ding bat
Did I say that 406,000 US dead was inconsequential? I think YOU just said that. I was just pointing out D-Day vs Stalingrad.
Are you saying the Millons of Russians deaths are Inconsequential? Of course not, only a real horses end would say such an asinine statement.
Once again, you post nothing to back yourself up, TAM is doing your dirty work
Also thank you TAM those are very good links, and show that NO Country is without dirt. Do you think France should apologize? I do
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:56 pm
by marksiwel
chartreuse wrote:"When right, to keep her right and when wrong, to put her right".
Yes. 100%. It just seems when people try to do that, they get labeled as Un-American and all that nonsense.
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:42 pm
by Oldgringo
Moderators, isn't it time for you know what?
Please and thank you,
Greg
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:54 pm
by marksiwel
Oldgringo wrote:Moderators, isn't it time for you know what?
Please and thank you,
Greg
yep.
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:51 pm
by SkydiverRick
marksiwel wrote:SkydiverRick wrote:
What a prime example of liberal projection. Accusing me of precisely what you are doing. You say that 406,000 dead American servicemen is inconsequential and when I call you on it, you turn the conversation to the accuracy of wikipedia.
That would be great if I was a liberal ,ding bat
Did I say that 406,000 US dead was inconsequential? I think YOU just said that. I was just pointing out D-Day vs Stalingrad.
Are you saying the Millons of Russians deaths are Inconsequential? Of course not, only a real horses end would say such an asinine statement.
Once again, you post nothing to back yourself up, TAM is doing your dirty work
Also thank you TAM those are very good links, and show that NO Country is without dirt. Do you think France should apologize? I do
I wondered how long it would take you to start the name calling.
Liberal Argument Progression:
1) Shift the subject
2) Ignore the facts
3) Name calling
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:58 pm
by marksiwel
SkydiverRick wrote:marksiwel wrote:SkydiverRick wrote:
What a prime example of liberal projection. Accusing me of precisely what you are doing. You say that 406,000 dead American servicemen is inconsequential and when I call you on it, you turn the conversation to the accuracy of wikipedia.
That would be great if I was a liberal ,ding bat
Did I say that 406,000 US dead was inconsequential? I think YOU just said that. I was just pointing out D-Day vs Stalingrad.
Are you saying the Millons of Russians deaths are Inconsequential? Of course not, only a real horses end would say such an asinine statement.
Once again, you post nothing to back yourself up, TAM is doing your dirty work
Also thank you TAM those are very good links, and show that NO Country is without dirt. Do you think France should apologize? I do
I wondered how long it would take you to start the name calling.
Liberal Argument Progression:
1) Shift the subject
2) Ignore the facts
3) Name calling
You called me a Liberal
You shifted the subject to Wikipedia
you ignored the facts (Still havent posted a link or disproven anything
)
Thanks for proving your own point.
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:05 pm
by SkydiverRick
marksiwel wrote:SkydiverRick wrote:marksiwel wrote:SkydiverRick wrote:
What a prime example of liberal projection. Accusing me of precisely what you are doing. You say that 406,000 dead American servicemen is inconsequential and when I call you on it, you turn the conversation to the accuracy of wikipedia.
That would be great if I was a liberal ,ding bat
Did I say that 406,000 US dead was inconsequential? I think YOU just said that. I was just pointing out D-Day vs Stalingrad.
Are you saying the Millons of Russians deaths are Inconsequential? Of course not, only a real horses end would say such an asinine statement.
Once again, you post nothing to back yourself up, TAM is doing your dirty work
Also thank you TAM those are very good links, and show that NO Country is without dirt. Do you think France should apologize? I do
I wondered how long it would take you to start the name calling.
Liberal Argument Progression:
1) Shift the subject
2) Ignore the facts
3) Name calling
You called me a Liberal
You shifted the subject to Wikipedia
you ignored the facts (Still havent posted a link or disproven anything
)
Thanks for proving your own point.
The posts speak for themselves. I'll let you have the last word.
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:07 pm
by marksiwel
Re: I'm sick of it, just sick of it.
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:08 pm
by gigag04
This thread and "Cuffed and Stuffed" are probably my favorite threads to lurk as of recent. I would gladly see them both locked, but i won't lose any sleep over it.
The entertainment value is too high.
