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USA1 wrote:

Purplehood wrote: But I decided that a purse wouldn't look good on me.

Don't call it a purse. Call it a "European shoulder bag"...makes it easier that way.

I spent six years in Germany, some "guys" there do carry a bag that looks like a purse to me. It also not unusaul to see two females or two males waling down the street holding hands. I was told that this is a sign of friendship, not that they are gay. Okay, whatever, I still ain't gonna do that. Sorry to get off subject, but i didn't start it.

redlin67 wrote:I spent six years in Germany, some "guys" there do carry a bag that looks like a purse to me. It also not unusual to see two females or two males waling down the street holding hands. I was told that this is a sign of friendship, not that they are gay. Okay, whatever, I still ain't gonna do that. Sorry to get off subject, but i didn't start it.

When I was in Thailand (1973-74), I was told that it was considered acceptable for two guys or two gals to hold hands on the street, but not for a guy and a gal. Cultural differences can be a real eyeopener.

In watching the video - if you did decide to shoot in that situation, you'd need to be real sure of what was behind your target. Your rounds would have likely ended up in the next row of cars over. The only way to have avoided that would be to be extra diligent regarding your surroundings and as others have already posted, I'm not so sure that would have helped in this situation.

I agree that this was almost a no-way-out situation for the victim. I guess if you had a good inkling the BG was going to shoot you, you could try a gun grab and move out of the line of fire. Alternately, you might could draw, drop to the ground and shoot in an upward trajectory. This might catch the BG off-guard and would help prevent your rounds from injuring folks in the line of fire (no guarantee -but it should help). Of course, all of that is Monday morning quarterbacking. I'm glad everything turned out in this case - it sure could have gone much worse! This is one instance where you wouldn't want a mouse gun (at least IMO) since you really can't retreat being trapped by the open door and all. I'd think you want a fight stopping pistol in that situation.

kragluver wrote:In watching the video - if you did decide to shoot in that situation, you'd need to be real sure of what was behind your target. Your rounds would have likely ended up in the next row of cars over. The only way to have avoided that would be to be extra diligent regarding your surroundings and as others have already posted, I'm not so sure that would have helped in this situation.

I agree that this was almost a no-way-out situation for the victim. I guess if you had a good inkling the BG was going to shoot you, you could try a gun grab and move out of the line of fire. Alternately, you might could draw, drop to the ground and shoot in an upward trajectory. This might catch the BG off-guard and would help prevent your rounds from injuring folks in the line of fire (no guarantee -but it should help). Of course, all of that is Monday morning quarterbacking. I'm glad everything turned out in this case - it sure could have gone much worse! This is one instance where you wouldn't want a mouse gun (at least IMO) since you really can't retreat being trapped by the open door and all. I'd think you want a fight stopping pistol in that situation.

I personally would always strive not to shoot in an upward trajectory. The round then has the potential to go over obstacles that might otherwise have stopped it and dropped anywhere. A dropping round is just as dangerous as an aimed round.

Purplehood wrote:

kragluver wrote:In watching the video - if you did decide to shoot in that situation, you'd need to be real sure of what was behind your target. Your rounds would have likely ended up in the next row of cars over. The only way to have avoided that would be to be extra diligent regarding your surroundings and as others have already posted, I'm not so sure that would have helped in this situation.

I agree that this was almost a no-way-out situation for the victim. I guess if you had a good inkling the BG was going to shoot you, you could try a gun grab and move out of the line of fire. Alternately, you might could draw, drop to the ground and shoot in an upward trajectory. This might catch the BG off-guard and would help prevent your rounds from injuring folks in the line of fire (no guarantee -but it should help). Of course, all of that is Monday morning quarterbacking. I'm glad everything turned out in this case - it sure could have gone much worse! This is one instance where you wouldn't want a mouse gun (at least IMO) since you really can't retreat being trapped by the open door and all. I'd think you want a fight stopping pistol in that situation.

I personally would always strive not to shoot in an upward trajectory. The round then has the potential to go over obstacles that might otherwise have stopped it and dropped anywhere. A dropping round is just as dangerous as an aimed round.

An exception to consider would be a situation where there are known innocents at some distance directly behind the BG, which could easily happen in a parking lot, store, or any other public place.

A shot into the BG on an upward trajectory would greatly reduce the risk to persons directly in line beyond the BG, and if the round did exit the target, the velocity loss would substantially reduce (but not eliminate) the risk of serious injury to anyone who might be hit by the descending round.

Sometimes the least worst is the best choice available.

An exception to consider would be a situation where there are known innocents at some distance directly behind the BG, which could easily happen in a parking lot, store, or any other public place.

A shot into the BG on an upward trajectory would greatly reduce the risk to persons directly in line beyond the BG, and if the round did exit the target, the velocity loss would substantially reduce (but not eliminate) the risk of serious injury to anyone who might be hit by the descending round.

Sometimes the least worst is the best choice available.

This was exactly my point. I know well the dangers of shooting into the air. I was trying to think of the least risky thing to do for both by-standers and the victim getting out of the line of fire given that they had no way to retreat (left, right or backwards). Dropping to a knee and shooting in an upwards trajectory towards the pelvis or lower chest is taught by some self-defense instructors. This may have been one place to use it given there were not many other options.

sjfcontrol wrote:ok -- I'll let you know how I feel when my family is murdered -- You let me know how you feel when your wife is on death row. Well compare notes.

By the way, you CANNOT kill somebody for something they might or might not do some time in the future. To be specific, you CANNOT kill somebody because they just got your keys and address, and may or may not show up at your door. You CAN kill them once they're in your door and threatening you or your family.

They don’t necessarily have to be in your door. http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archi ... 94_1176188" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This guy wasn’t indicted. From what I read, the fool jumped a locked gate into the back yard and started banging on the back door. I believe this was two or three in the morning.

In some states the guy might have been prosecuted.

sjfcontrol wrote:

wheelgun1958 wrote:PC §9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after com-
mitting burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the night-
time from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by
any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover
the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial
risk of death or serious bodily injury.

What are the chances of getting the contents of her purse back?

Yes, Texas law allows that. BUT, justifying it afterwards is problematic. Juries don't look kindly on killing people over minor property crimes, such as purse snatching. And think about it. Do you REALLY want to kill somebody over a purse?

"Do you REALLY want to kill somebody over a purse?"

Is it obligatory to feel bad about shooting a criminal?

VoiceofReason wrote:Is it obligatory to feel bad about shooting a criminal?

Maybe. It depends if they voted for or against Obama.

VoiceofReason wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

wheelgun1958 wrote:PC §9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after com-
mitting burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the night-
time from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by
any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover
the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial
risk of death or serious bodily injury.

What are the chances of getting the contents of her purse back?

Yes, Texas law allows that. BUT, justifying it afterwards is problematic. Juries don't look kindly on killing people over minor property crimes, such as purse snatching. And think about it. Do you REALLY want to kill somebody over a purse?

"Do you REALLY want to kill somebody over a purse?"

Is it obligatory to feel bad about shooting a criminal?

I'm not sure it's optional. Guess it depends on your character. Could you KILL somebody without feeling remorse? Bad dreams? Upset stomach? Something? The guy may have been bad thru-and-thru, but he probably had parents that cared for him, perhaps a wife or kids. Surely somebody cared...

If someone attacks me and I have to defend myself and family and the result is they die, then the remorse for their loved ones is real BUT, he made the decision to put his family in that situation..... NOT ME! I will not carry the guilt for his decision. He made his bed and he can lie in it... I am cold, yes, life, S*** happens, live with it and go on.

As for this attack which is the Walmart I shop and buy ammo from is close to my home - 5 miles. I watch who drives and HOW They drive in lots like this when I go in and out. I don't turn my back on the lane as I get in my care unless I have looked to see what is going on my lane first. Just my habit nowadays. Did you notice others did not even seem to know what was going on? Ashame... Just ashame.

Gary

Not to go off topic, but an update to the story:

http://www.click2houston.com/news/24019737/detail.html

Looks like they caught the thugs! One less bunch off the streets (for now at least).

No doubt the video shows there was hardly any time to react. Increasing situational awareness might help to prevent something like this (but of course, nothing is ever for sure).

They were stupid enough to use their own vehicle? One of them was already in jail. They must have had one heck of a party after stealing that purse. Wonder if they had a table at a flea market selling wallets & purses. Glad they all got caught. Won't have to worry about those 3 for a couple of years, maybe.

gwashorn wrote:If someone attacks me and I have to defend myself and family and the result is they die, then the remorse for their loved ones is real BUT, he made the decision to put his family in that situation..... NOT ME! I will not carry the guilt for his decision. He made his bed and he can lie in it... I am cold, yes, life, S*** happens, live with it and go on.


Gary

That sounds appropriate. I was not talking about guilt -- especially not for a shooting due to threat of lethal force. I was only talking about an emotional reaction to having taken a life.

sjfcontrol wrote:

gwashorn wrote:If someone attacks me and I have to defend myself and family and the result is they die, then the remorse for their loved ones is real BUT, he made the decision to put his family in that situation..... NOT ME! I will not carry the guilt for his decision. He made his bed and he can lie in it... I am cold, yes, life, S*** happens, live with it and go on.


Gary

That sounds appropriate. I was not talking about guilt -- especially not for a shooting due to threat of lethal force. I was only talking about an emotional reaction to having taken a life.

Taking a life is an extremely intense emotional experience, even when it is justified and no other reasonable option is available. During the event, a defender will see, hear, smell, and taste things far different than anything else in their experience unless they've previously seen combat or extensive service in a very active emergency response organization.

If there was no other reasonable way to protect innocent life, you're right that there's no logical cause for guilt, but that doesn't mean you won't feel that emotion and many others anyway. Emotions don't run on logic. If history is any indicator, you also probably wouldn't sleep like you did before for some time.

The emotions may go back to the fact that most species are wired not to kill members of their own kind. Col. Dave Grossman's book On Killing is a well researched and thoughtful exploration of this subject that has much to say to anyone who may at some time be involved in deadly combat. The experiences of those who have gone before most certainly contain valuable lessons for the future.