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Oldgringo wrote:I still think it's time to close this thread. Everybody has had their say and nobody, including me, is going to change their mind.

I'm not done yet. Gimme a minute.......












.......




.....Okay. I'm done.

Purplehood wrote:It is my thread and I will beat it to death!!!

You are not alone, I'm gonna help you.

I like the juxtaposition of my icons. Quite original.

Purplehood....I'm not attacking you personally. If you will go back and read carefully what I wrote, I think you will see that very clearly. I have mentioned the high levels of military command. I have mentioned policies that were and are taught at the War College. I have mentioned policies and mindsets that have become entrenched in the Pentagon. If you are a general, professor, or staff in the Pentagon, then I guess that I'm talking to you. I made very specific use of certain words to avoid confusion and misunderstanding.

If you read over what I wrote without trying to understand what is said and pick out certain words without grasping the thought presented, then I guess you're going to be offended. Please understand this is not my intention. I am not suggesting any of the things you accuse me of suggesting - specifically about you. I am simply trying to discuss some things that have been taught to every soldier since Vietnam that I (and many others who served) believe is wrong. My interest is only that. Nothing personally directed at you.

I agree with what you say about how you conduct yourself in war. I have no interest in this save trying to stop those who serve from dying, who might otherwise be spared, were it not for some flawed ideas floating around. General Petraus voiced (albeit he may not have intended to) those ideas by speaking out on an issue. Unless you speak for the General, it is not intended to be aimed at you personally.

Finally, I'm not going to say any more about religion. You did not read what I wrote. I used a very specific word: today. That does not mean 5,000 years of history.

I want to suggest a book to those who are interested that is fascinating reading and deeply chilling by a lady with more courage than almost anyone I know today. She has invested her life infiltrating radical Islamist organizations in America. The title is:
"Terrorist Hunter"
Author: anonymous (You will see why her name is withheld when you read it.)
ISBN 0-06-052819-2

ETA: As of this morning, I see that the "pastor" in Florida has decided not to burn the Qurans. He does desire to sit down in a meeting with the Iman who is trying to build the mosque near the 9-11 site. All they need now is Mr. "O" and a case of beer and it has all the makings of legend.

PeteCamp wrote:Purplehood....I'm not attacking you personally. If you will go back and read carefully what I wrote, I think you will see that very clearly. I have mentioned the high levels of military command. I have mentioned policies that were and are taught at the War College. I have mentioned policies and mindsets that have become entrenched in the Pentagon. If you are a general, professor, or staff in the Pentagon, then I guess that I'm talking to you. I made very specific use of certain words to avoid confusion and misunderstanding.

If you read over what I wrote without trying to understand what is said and pick out certain words without grasping the thought presented, then I guess you're going to be offended. Please understand this is not my intention. I am not suggesting any of the things you accuse me of suggesting - specifically about you. I am simply trying to discuss some things that have been taught to every soldier since Vietnam that I (and many others who served) believe is wrong. My interest is only that. Nothing personally directed at you.

I agree with what you say about how you conduct yourself in war. I have no interest in this save trying to stop those who serve from dying, who might otherwise be spared, were it not for some flawed ideas floating around. General Petraus voiced (albeit he may not have intended to) those ideas by speaking out on an issue. Unless you speak for the General, it is not intended to be aimed at you personally.

Finally, I'm not going to say any more about religion. You did not read what I wrote. I used a very specific word: today. That does not mean 5,000 years of history.

I want to suggest a book to those who are interested that is fascinating reading and deeply chilling by a lady with more courage than almost anyone I know today. She has invested her life infiltrating radical Islamist organizations in America. The title is:
"Terrorist Hunter"
Author: anonymous (You will see why her name is withheld when you read it.)
ISBN 0-06-052819-2

ETA: As of this morning, I see that the "pastor" in Florida has decided not to burn the Qurans. He does desire to sit down in a meeting with the Iman who is trying to build the mosque near the 9-11 site. All they need now is Mr. "O" and a case of beer and it has all the makings of legend.

I don't take your posts as a personal attack.

I think that I might have avoided some of this discussion with the simple statement that I agree with the General, but I do not agree with his reasons why.

I have to stand by my remarks about 5,000 years of history and religious wars. If we want to learn from the past, why not look at all of it?

If the same people who are so vocal aginst the burning of a book that is holy only to muslims were as vocal in condemning the ongoing rabid persecution of Christians in ALL muslim RULED countries then possiby I would be willing to listen to more of their drivel. As has been pointed out, the fact that, as a rule, few muslims openly condemn the violent persecution, and fewer still even attempt at prosecuting in a viable justice system any acts of violence against Christians. Furthermore, when the muslims of the world accept that our Bible means as much to us as their koran means to them and treat the inspired Word of God with the same respect they demand from us then their protests will actually mean something. Once they act in the same manner as we do, maybe then will we view islam as a religion of peace.

Anygunanywhere

Purplehood wrote:...This is not the only religion that has caused "so much trouble" in our roughly 5,000 years of recorded history....

Yeah, well with one group, you have to go back hundreds of years to find them "causing trouble" and the other you only have to go back to yesterday.


..............................

I think Petraeus should have kept his yap shut and concentrated on his job of prosecuting the war instead of worrying that some wack-job yahoo cult leader in Florida with a microscopic following was up to. News flash, General: the Islamists already hate us - and everybody else who doesn't think like them. They really don't need a reason "to inflame public opinion and incite violence." Tiptoeing around their hypersensitive pretend sensibilities because we are afraid of making them mad is not going to make them like us and stop wanting to kill us. Only one thing will make them like us and stop wanting to kill us and that is converting not just to Islam, but their particular brand of intolerant and hate-filled Islam.

Even if nobody burns a Koran, "they" will be told "we" did.

mctowalot wrote:Even if nobody burns a Koran, "they" will be told "we" did.

I'm sure there are enough wingbats around that one of them will be burning one tomorrow to try to drum up money or publicity.

Did anybody see any TV news tonight? Thanks to the TV networks' coverage of the Florida crackpot, the POTUS and Gen. Petreaus, the muslims around the planet are in another fanatical uproar with their battle cry of "Death to America".

It doesn't matter whether a Quran gets burned or not. These people hate you, they hate me and they are bent on our destruction.

Are they ever not in a fanatical uproar?

Oldgringo wrote:Did anybody see any TV news tonight? Thanks to the TV networks' coverage of the Florida crackpot, the POTUS and Gen. Petreaus, the muslims around the planet are in another fanatical uproar with their battle cry of "Death to America".

It doesn't matter whether a Quran gets burned or not. These people hate you, they hate me and they are bent on our destruction.

Yeah, that is why we are in Afghanistan shooting at them. If the Army would take my broken-down old-self back, I would go again. I believe in my values, but I don't believe in appeasement.

I look at this from two different perspectives, as an ex soldier and as a Christian.

As a Christian, I feel it is our duty to win their hearts and minds and show them the one true way. While a pessimist or non believer might say we will never convert many Islamist, but what is a single soul worth? Burning the Koran does nothing to win them over or to forward our cause, it willl probably just deepen divisions and further distrust to those who might see the true light. Christians should defend themselves their familiys and their church. Burning Korans is a move calculated only to alieniate. Those Christians who have seen the Madonna
pickled in urine in the name of Art surely understand how these things can engage people.

As an old soldier of many years gone by, I see how Gen. Petreaus words as a simple warning or a simple plea, He didn't suggest that don't allow the bonfire, he like most of here believes the whole thing is a bad Idea. Propaganda is a part of war. He has been with success telling the peoples there that this isn't a religious war but a war against evil (the Taliban) The success of the war is almost completely dependant upon the support of the Afghani people, they are very sensitive to rumors, If they start to believe we are fighting a religious crusade.

The way wars are one is to destroy those who are against you, and make allies from the rest. Burning Korans just makes it harder to make allies. Not winning hearts and souls will contribute into getting his men killed. Petreaus was just telling us like it is. If the freedom of speech allows the creeps to burn Korans, then surely Petreaus should be allowed to speak his mind in defense of his charges. He has more at stake in this than most of us.

Thought this was appropriate

Keith B wrote:Thought this was appropriate

Very good!