not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Colleges are places to learn, not die at the hands of attention-starved mass-murderers.

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Oldgringo
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by Oldgringo »

mreavis wrote:

...Teachers and judges come to a state/society/general publics facility to preform a service and be paid for it. It is a job. While they should earn our upmost respect they do not own or reign over these physical locations. I as a tax payer and student pay FOR school. I give money to the shcool to provide things for me, not get paid to be there. If the class room has to belong to any one entity it is the students/customers. While I personally believe it belongs to the society, either way it sure as crap is not under the sole rule of the teacher or judge. They are preforming a job they are well paid for and do not get to dictate their compliance with societies systems of law for carrying a gun.
There, I fixed it for me. :tiphat:
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by b322da »

chasfm11 wrote: For example, if he asked at the beginning of each session, "anyone who is carrying a firearm, raise your hand", I'm not obligated to respond to him because his request does not trump the TPC which requires me to retain the confidentially of my weapon.
The TPC requires you to retain the confidentiallly (sic) of [your] weapon? Where, pray tell?

Elmo
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by Keith B »

b322da wrote:
chasfm11 wrote: For example, if he asked at the beginning of each session, "anyone who is carrying a firearm, raise your hand", I'm not obligated to respond to him because his request does not trump the TPC which requires me to retain the confidentially of my weapon.
The TPC requires you to retain the confidentiallly (sic) of [your] weapon? Where, pray tell?

Elmo
In my opinion this would be intentional unconcealment, albeit not visual, so against the law. No matter, I look at it along the same lines as questioning as anything else personal like 'anyone in here not wearing clean underwear raise your hand' and I am not required to answer any question either. :mrgreen:
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by b322da »

Reloader wrote:Years ago, I carried to night school. I carried three; only one professor knew cause he was a shooting buddy.I escorted all the girls to their cars after class to make sure that they left safely. Never had a problem, even though 7 girls were raped by the campus police and 12 were robbed before they figured out who was doing it. I carried one on rt. hip, one on ankle, and one in left pocket; I hated carrying reloads except for the .45 on my hip. 2 extra mags. All holsters we Greg Kramers.
Too bad the application for a CHL does not include a question such as, "Have you ever knowingly violated a state or federal law prohibiting the carrying or use of a firearm?" -- leaving the question of the 5th Amendment to the courts, not necessarily an easy question inasmuch as concealed carry of a handgun has not, at least yet, been decided by SCOTUS to be a right, rather than a privilege.

I suppose the point here is, "It doesn't really matter what the law is, I will do what I want to do anyway." Passive resistance? Civil disobedience?

This, I suggest, may be another clear example of how we can harm our valid cause just by talking too much.

Elmo
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by b322da »

Keith B wrote:
b322da wrote:
chasfm11 wrote: For example, if he asked at the beginning of each session, "anyone who is carrying a firearm, raise your hand", I'm not obligated to respond to him because his request does not trump the TPC which requires me to retain the confidentially of my weapon.
The TPC requires you to retain the confidentiallly (sic) of [your] weapon? Where, pray tell?

Elmo
In my opinion this would be intentional unconcealment, albeit not visual, so against the law.
If intentional unconcealment, albeit it not visual, is against the law, I must ask how many of us, including myself, admit violation of the law here on this forum?

Elmo
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by b322da »

chasfm11 wrote: I'm not sure that I understand immature in this context.
A poor choice of words, for which I apologize to all. We actually share a bit of background, Chas., in education, that is. :tiphat:

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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by b322da »

OldSchool wrote: And I really can't agree that Feynman "single-handedly" saved the program....
An overstatement resulting from my being so impressed with his genius for so long. Sorry. I'm sure somebody else would have figured it out.

But I will never forget his holding up that O-ring after Challenger went down. So simple, yet so many beautiful lives and minds lost.

Elmo
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by b322da »

mreavis wrote: While I personally believe it belongs to the society, either way it sure as crap is not under the sole rule of the teacher or judge.
If one wants to know whether or not a courtroom belongs to a judge, call her, in her courtroom, some of the language used here with respect to Professor Krauss, e.g., moron, blowhard, idiot, intellectually sub-standard, jerk, anti-gun jerk, ridiculous (sic).

Elmo
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by RPB »

Found my fluorescent orange and yellow Thong ... and white spandex bike shorts .... and fishnet mesh tank top ...ready for class now.

(EMPTY HOLSTER PROTEST?????? Just wait ..... )

Choice of Clothing can be a First Amendment Freedom of Speech issue too

I don't need to "say" a word. Just trying to make the Prof "feel" comfortable that I'm not carrying.

"rlol"
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by The Annoyed Man »

b322da wrote:I think that all this maligning, insulting and outright libel of Professor Krause is beginning to show widespread immaturity. He is a brilliant professor, who had his latest book, just released, reviewed by the Times just yesterday. There are not many who can write a biography of Richard Feynman, much less understand Feynman's genius, or his field, quantum electrodynamics theory, even a little bit.

This thread reminded me of the review I read yesterday, I ordered the book from Amazon a few minutes ago, and I received it less than a minute later. I am sure that most of you, being Texans, remember Feynman, the guy who rescued the space shuttle program by just sitting down and thinking.

Elmo

(Edited to spell Richard Feynman's name correctly, thanks to a perceptive reader). :oops:
Off topic, but I actually knew Feynman. He ate dinner in our home on more than one occasion. He was a really funny guy.

Now, let me tell you a little bit about the 'geniuses' of academia... My parents were on the faculty at Caltech, in the humanities division. My father was a published author considered to be one of the world's foremost authorities on the works of Joseph Conrad. He had two PhDs. My mother graduated summa cum laude from the Sorbonne, and her doctoral thesis was published as a book. She has authored, or co-authored 13 books since then, and at age 86 is currently working on number 15. we counted among our family friends no less than THREE Nobel laureates, including Max Delbrück—who, to this day, is the only person I ever met who really did know almost everything there was to know about anything, and who truly was a superlative human being who was part of our closest inner circle. Even Feynman couldn't match that. Believe me, I KNOW.

This guy Krause is small cheese. He is a minor professor in a second tier university—no offense meant to anyone who went to school there... but it ain't Harvard Law. Academics, by nature of the same sheltered environment that is supposed to support and nurture their work by insulating them from the realities of the economy and job marketplace, know little or nothing about how the real world works—my parents included. I reserve an exception for engineers, who often seem to do creative and useful things in real life.

Elmo, you're an attorney, and meaning no disrespect, but if you're honest with me you'll acknowledge the old joke in the legal industry that all attorneys think they have a good book somewhere inside of them. Some actually do, but most don't....just like the rest of us don't. Many attorneys (and professors) suffer from the vanity that, because they know a lot about one thing, they then necessarily know a lot about most things. Again, meaning no disrespect to you personally, but this is no more true of attorneys who teach the law than it is true of doctors who teach gynecology, or literary professors who teach courses about Joseph Conrad. When I worked for Daily Journal Corporation, a large west coast legal publisher, I had plenty of opportunity to see books written by attorneys that were submitted for review. A few were good. Most were not.

Just because Krause wrote a book about Feynman doesn't mean that he did anything either original or great, just because he is a law professor. I'll reserve judgement until I've had a chance to read the book myself. Even so, even IF he wrote a good book about Feynman, that does not mean that his approach to CHL in the classroom is either correct, well thought out, or even that intelligent. My previously mentioned and very capable mother survived the Axis occupation of North Africa. My dad (barely) survived Iwo Jima. Both came to the conclusion that violence is NEVER the proper response. They were both demonstrably wrong as hades about that, their exalted positions in academia notwithstanding.

Krause's public statements are patently ridiculous. He made them very publicly. They are therefore fair game for public ridicule.
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by b322da »

tacticool wrote:
b322da wrote:I think that all this maligning, insulting and outright libel of Professor Krauss
Truth is a defense to libel.
Indeed?

The writings in this forum are arguably published in every country and jurisdiction throughout the world, except those, of course, who have no counterpart of our First Amendment. We are not alone here in the United States, much less alone here in Texas.

Prove the truth of each of these allegations to a jury in, say, San Francisco, New York City, or Boston: "moron, blowhard, idiot, intellectually sub-standard, jerk, anti-gun jerk, ridiculous (sic)."

Prove the truth of each of these allegations in a country, or jurisdiction, where truth is not a defense, and see where that gets the writer.

Prove the truth of each of these allegations if they are proved to the satisfaction of a judicial finder of fact as having been written with malicious intent, and see where that gets the writer.

Offhand comments like this by even our resident legal scholars can invite the financial ruin of others, particularly those who believe it is true just because it is on the Internet. Please be assured that I do not accuse anyone, anyone, of intentionally misrepresenting the law. I just want to perhaps impress some with the importance of taking care when they sit down at that keyboard.

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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by WildBill »

The Annoyed Man wrote:This guy Krause is small cheese. He is a minor professor in a second tier university—no offense meant to anyone who went to school there... but it ain't Harvard Law. Academics, by nature of the same sheltered environment that is supposed to support and nurture their work by insulating them from the realities of the economy and job marketplace, know little or nothing about how the real world works—my parents included. I reserve an exception for engineers, who often seem to do creative and useful things in real life.
Of course there are many exceptions to this example. One of the best professors that I ever had earned his PhD from a Tier One University. He could have been on the facility of any university in world, but he decided to teach at a state college. Why? Because he wanted to teach rather than do research and turn out useless journal articles.

He did have one good book in him. It is the best selling book on the subject of analytical chemistry that has ever been written. It is a standard textbook used in just about every college and university in the world. It has been in print since 1971 and translated into at least 20 languages.
Last edited by WildBill on Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by Keith B »

b322da wrote:
Keith B wrote:
b322da wrote:
chasfm11 wrote: For example, if he asked at the beginning of each session, "anyone who is carrying a firearm, raise your hand", I'm not obligated to respond to him because his request does not trump the TPC which requires me to retain the confidentially of my weapon.
The TPC requires you to retain the confidentiallly (sic) of [your] weapon? Where, pray tell?

Elmo
In my opinion this would be intentional unconcealment, albeit not visual, so against the law.
If intentional unconcealment, albeit it not visual, is against the law, I must ask how many of us, including myself, admit violation of the law here on this forum?

Elmo
I have. But, I watch who with and where I break the law. Only certain people will know if I am carrying or not. But, just like open carrying in someone else's home is illegal, who cares if you are both working on his car in a closed garage and he is your shooting buddy who you got into guns?

Bottom line, as you well know things are not always black and white in the law, and there are so many shades of gray they make Sherwin-Williams jealous. So, left up to interpretation one Judge or Jury may rule one way and the next the opposite.

In this case, if I was legally allowed to carry in the college classroom and took the 5th on ANY question that was not pertinent to the curriculum being taught (i.e. are you carrying?), and was punished because of it, the college would have a 1983 case on their hands VERY fast.
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

Post by b322da »

The Annoyed Man wrote: Just because Krause (sic) wrote a book about Feynman doesn't mean that he did anything either original or great, just because he is a law professor.
I hope I do not annoy you further, TAM, by stating MHO that of all the insults Dr. Krauss has received here, the worst may well be saying that he is a law professor. :smilelol5:

Take a look at him here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_M._Krauss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Elmo
Last edited by b322da on Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

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b322da wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote: Just because Krause (sic) wrote a book about Feynman doesn't mean that he did anything either original or great, just because he is a law professor.
I hope I do not annoy you further, TAM, by stating MHO that of all the insults Dr. Krauss has received here, the worst may well be that he is a law professor. :smilelol5:
Elmo
BTW Arizona State University is obvious not Harvard, MIT or UC Berkeley, but they have world class astromony, physics and optics programs.
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