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Beiruty wrote:

Slowplay wrote:Some men you just can't reach [in my best Strother Martin voice].

We've had the two largest increases to the debt limit in the past 18 months. It was not a surprise when the dem congress increased it by almost $2 trillion in early calendar 2010. For the split congress to just increase it around $2.4 trillion, after the 2010 election results, it is quite disappointing.

We are now at total debt to GDP of ~ 100%. Libs want more tax receipts and the "rich" to pay more of their "fair share," but when half of US households pay nothing in federal income tax, you can see through their deceptive and dishonest rhetoric.

Please do not forget that 10-12 million illegal immigrant who pay $0 for the Federal income tax or any other tax (save sales tax).

Don't throw bricks at me, but illlegal immigrants pay many taxes. Taxes are buried into our infrastructure in such a way that it's impossible to avoid them. For example, you pay taxes every time you pay a utility bill, every time you make a phone call, every time you buy groceries (I'm not referring to sales tax.) You also pay taxes when you rent property, because the property owner has factored in the cost of taxes in the monthly rent.

Yes, they don't pay income tax and yes they should be deported (and spare me the sob stories about breaking up families - choices have consequences), but they do pay taxes just be living, working and eating here.

Beiruty wrote:Does anyone know what the best way to influence the budget process and push to balanced budget?

Yes. Throw the bums out of office and keep throwing them out until they get the message.

This article should be a must read for every man, woman and child in the US regarding the debt. Outstanding writing!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colu ... truth.html

We need to also realize that in other countries who have had their credit rating drop from AAA to AA+, there has been little, if any change.

Worry about Europe not US.

Greenspan, US can print money to pay debt.

"This is not an issue of credit rating. The United States can pay any debt it has because it can always print money to do that. There's zero probability of default," he said. "What I think the S&P (downgrade) did was to hit a nerve. ... It's hit the self-esteem of the United States, the psyche. And it's having a much profounder effect than I conceived could happen."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/ ... XF20110807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Running the printing presses 24x7 instead of borrowing may be a good idea for the long term. Sure it will cause inflation and other economic pain now, but maybe that's what we need to stop the crazy pattern of cash outflows double the cash inflows. Maybe that pain will force a reversal of course, so things can improve in the long run. The current pattern keeps deferring the pain, like an alcoholic staying drunk to avoid a hangover, but that doesn't do anything to stop the liver damage and other long term problems. When those problems surface, it's too late to turn back.

The problem isn't having enough dollars to pay back debts, as Greenspan says, we'll never run out of dollars. The problem arises when the dollar is so poorly thought of that it doesn't fetch many goods or services, including currencies, except in large amounts. In other words, the exchange rate become very disadvantageous to us, or the rest of the world may stop accepting dollars all together.

Count wrote:Running the printing presses 24x7 instead of borrowing may be a good idea for the long term. Sure it will cause inflation and other economic pain now, but maybe that's what we need to stop the crazy pattern of cash outflows double the cash inflows. Maybe that pain will force a reversal of course, so things can improve in the long run. The current pattern keeps deferring the pain, like an alcoholic staying drunk to avoid a hangover, but that doesn't do anything to stop the liver damage and other long term problems. When those problems surface, it's too late to turn back.

US Feds already, bought some 5-6 trillion dollars of failed loans (real estate properties). Some 1.5 trillion more for the bailouts to big banks. And, some Q1 and Q2 worth some 1.2 -1.6 Trillion or so.
And more to come.

Beiruty wrote:Does anyone know what the best way to influence the budget process and push to balanced budget?

Term Limits

The problems we have now will look miniscule if the dollar looses it's status as the world's primary reserve currency. That is THE ONLY reason they can just print more money.

BigPa wrote:The problems we have now will look miniscule if the dollar looses it's status as the world's primary reserve currency. That is THE ONLY reason they can just print more money.

The problems we have now already look miniscule compared to the actual problem, because the government is already borrowing to pay off debt. It's fundamentally no different than a Ponzi scheme and it will eventually collapse unless there's a drastic reversal of course. And soon.

bnc wrote:The problem isn't having enough dollars to pay back debts, as Greenspan says, we'll never run out of dollars. The problem arises when the dollar is so poorly thought of that it doesn't fetch many goods or services, including currencies, except in large amounts. In other words, the exchange rate become very disadvantageous to us, or the rest of the world may stop accepting dollars all together.

Exactly. This is not an argumentum ad hitlerum, but simply a recounting of history..... When the Weimar Republic in Germany went south before the ascendancy of the Nazi Party, inflation was the cause. They had plenty of money. Lots and lots of money. But it literally took a wheelbarrow full of paper bills to buy a dozen eggs. THAT is the problem when your answer is, "oh, don't worry about it....we'll just print more money."

Here's another way of looking at it........ The total number of dollars in the economy represents a fixed amount of total wealth. Unless you have a growing economy where new industries and new companies create new jobs, expanding the amount of total wealth, the amount is wealth is a more or less fixed figure, and it is measured in units called dollars. When you print more dollars, you're not creating additional wealth. What you're doing is making it take more dollars than before to buy the same amount of wealth as before.

This stuff is not really rocket science at its core. I'm not saying that economics is a simple science, but there are certain principles which are fundamental and which aren't that hard to understand.

So, when Weimar Germany experienced massive inflation in which to required a literal wheelbarrow full of paper cash to buy a dozen eggs or a loaf of bread, then nobody anywhere, including in Germany, wanted to accept the German Mark in payment for anything.....because it was essentially worthless.

THAT is where we are headed, thanks to ACORN activists who think they know more about monetary policy than people who actually have to work to pay bills with real money.

Count wrote:

Beiruty wrote:Does anyone know what the best way to influence the budget process and push to balanced budget?

Term Limits

+1

The Annoyed Man wrote:They had plenty of money. Lots and lots of money. But it literally took a wheelbarrow full of paper bills to buy a dozen eggs. THAT is the problem when your answer is, "oh, don't worry about it....we'll just print more money."

A similar problem exists when the government's answer is, "oh, don't worry about it....we'll just borrow more money." Borrowing a trillion from China instead of printing a trillion does sweep the problem under the rug temporarily, but it's not sustainable long term, especially with the staggering growth in debt over the past 25 years.

What is most dangerous is the collapse can happen like a lightening. People are living in denial. NO plan to come to a balanced budget. No one is interested in fixing what is broken, because it is like they are breaking their legs. Everyone is chickening out. Where is the Leadership?

Something like what Ron Paul is saying :

http://www.thestatecolumn.com/articles/ ... downgrade/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;