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Yes, the guy made a mistake. The whole problem is that this should have never happened. Why would you "play" with your CONCEALED handgun at work? Especially knowing that there are strict policies in place. Just stupid.

He was stupid--monumentally so. However as it was simple momentary negligence and not a pattern of ND or malice therefore I am not ready to say off with his head or his CHL. I say he is a dum dum for letting that happen and dang lucky that no one got hurt, but I really want my police force going after more serious problems in my city. Heaven knows we have more malicious problems than a guy making a mistake he likely will never make again. A mistake that many many people have made in the past and will likely make again. Though I have not had a ND I say there but for the grace of God go I, not because I am not careful, but because I understand I am human and I will screw up. I would not take away a person's ability to defend themselves and their families for anything less than a felony conviction, but that is me.

For those of you saying he made a mistake and let it go, I disagree. As someone stated, this was pure negligence and no forethought. This wasn't like a ND at a gun range, he pulled the gun out around a group of people where it shouldn't have been removed from the backpack. Had he pulled the gun out, properly unloaded it and no negligent discharge, then yeah, maybe call it stupid mistake for getting it out in a location that was not safe and let him learn from the chastising. However, he first failed in two of the three basic rules of gun handling ON TOP OF intentional unconcealment, then he pulled the trigger. And, the only reason the third rule (pointed in a safe direction) probably happened is he got lucky and no one was in the path of the bullet. I will bet he wasn't intentionally pointing it in a safe direction since he had a monumental FAIL on the other points. So, IMO he had forged at least 5 links in an error chain that lead to the discharge and that it totally unacceptable.

Bottom line, anyone that isn't capable of handling a pistol in a manner better than this person needs to have his license yanked and accept the consequences for a totally negligent discharge, including any fines or penalties for the broken laws.

Keith B wrote:For those of you saying he made a mistake and let it go, I disagree. As someone stated, this was pure negligence and no forethought. This wasn't like a ND at a gun range, he pulled the gun out around a group of people where it shouldn't have been removed from the backpack. Had he pulled the gun out, properly unloaded it and no negligent discharge, then yeah, maybe call it stupid mistake for getting it out in a location that was not safe and let him learn from the chastising. However, he first failed in two of the three basic rules of gun handling ON TOP OF intentional unconcealment, then he pulled the trigger. And, the only reason the third rule (pointed in a safe direction) probably happened is he got lucky and no one was in the path of the bullet. I will bet he wasn't intentionally pointing it in a safe direction since he had a monumental FAIL on the other points. So, IMO he had forged at least 5 links in an error chain that lead to the discharge and that it totally unacceptable.

Bottom line, anyone that isn't capable of handling a pistol in a manner better than this person needs to have his license yanked and accept the consequences for a totally negligent discharge, including any fines or penalties for the broken laws.

Egggsactly

I find myself a little taken aback that anyone is trying to minimize the shocking nature of his failure just because he got lucky and it turned out ok. When we read of children having accidents because someone left an unsecured gun we don't go "awwwww...I bet no one feels worse than the owner of the gun". We want the book thrown at them for their criminal negligence.

All ND's are not the same and you can't lump them all together with the same magnitude of failure. A ND at a gun range is a far different animal than the one we are discussing. That being said, a ND at a range could be viewed just as badly depending on the circumstances surrounding it. First and foremost you are already engaging in intentional discharges at a range so the chance of a ND is much higher. Because of this there are additional barriers, traps, procedures and personnel to help minimize the chance of one occuring and to minimize the risk if one does. The annecdotal stories of RO's I have heard state that the lightest punishment is a complete ban from the range ranging to the police being called if it was really egregious...and this it at a hot range!!!!

Loading and unloading your home defence or concealed weapon at home presents another oportunity for ND. I would hope that we all have a proper routine that minimizes the risk of this procedure. I load and unload my pistol in my bedroom pointed into a corner that is an exterior brick wall. I also make sure my kids are not in the room. Were a ND to happen I can reasonably assure myself, that while it would a big deal, the circimstances surrounding its occurence don't make it as a big a deal as our hapless office guy.

I could go on and on about various situations and rank the magnitude of the failure with the common denominator being that there was a negligent discharge, but I'm sure we are all capable of doing that ourselves.

If you find yourself defending this office worker think about our favorite DEA "only one" youtube star. This office worker did the EXACT same thing!!!! You don't hear many people defending the DEA agent.

Keith B wrote:For those of you saying he made a mistake and let it go, I disagree. As someone stated, this was pure negligence and no forethought. This wasn't like a ND at a gun range, he pulled the gun out around a group of people where it shouldn't have been removed from the backpack. Had he pulled the gun out, properly unloaded it and no negligent discharge, then yeah, maybe call it stupid mistake for getting it out in a location that was not safe and let him learn from the chastising. However, he first failed in two of the three basic rules of gun handling ON TOP OF intentional unconcealment, then he pulled the trigger. And, the only reason the third rule (pointed in a safe direction) probably happened is he got lucky and no one was in the path of the bullet. I will bet he wasn't intentionally pointing it in a safe direction since he had a monumental FAIL on the other points. So, IMO he had forged at least 5 links in an error chain that lead to the discharge and that it totally unacceptable.

Bottom line, anyone that isn't capable of handling a pistol in a manner better than this person needs to have his license yanked and accept the consequences for a totally negligent discharge, including any fines or penalties for the broken laws.

...agree completely on this one!!! some folks just don't need sharp objects...or guns...

speedsix wrote: ...agree completely on this one!!! some folks just don't need sharp objects...or guns...

Hmmm how many times have I cut myself with a kitchen knife--more times than I can count. Do I know the proper way to handle kitchen knives--yep--so by that "one and you are done" philosophy should we take all the sharp objects out of my house? Now this is much more serious than a kitchen knife cut to a finger, but still. I am not comfortable making a person and their family vulnerable to every criminal element out there based on one stupid smack incident. I guess I see the right to have and carry a weapon as a right--not a privilege, and rights should only be revoked under the most serious of situations (felony convictions). Do we take a person's drivers liscense away based on one moment of negligence in which no one got hurt--no we don't, and a car is just as deadly of a weapon as any handgun.

grumbler wrote:To make it clear, the gun owner cleared the weapon and fired the weapon, he thought he had cleared it but left the clip in. He never handed it to anyone in the crowd of people standing around.

How long have you owned that particular firearm?

mamabearCali wrote:

speedsix wrote: ...agree completely on this one!!! some folks just don't need sharp objects...or guns...

Hmmm how many times have I cut myself with a kitchen knife--more times than I can count. Do I know the proper way to handle kitchen knives--yep--so by that "one and you are done" philosophy should we take all the sharp objects out of my house? Now this is much more serious than a kitchen knife cut to a finger, but still. I am not comfortable making a person and their family vulnerable to every criminal element out there based on one stupid smack incident. I guess I see the right to have and carry a weapon as a right--not a privilege, and rights should only be revoked under the most serious of situations (felony convictions). Do we take a person's drivers liscense away based on one moment of negligence in which no one got hurt--no we don't, and a car is just as deadly of a weapon as any handgun.

...the two aren't even close...an accidental cut while preparing food is NOTHING like ignoring all the rules...it's by the grace of God that noone was injured or killed...and I KNOW more than one woman who won't let her knives be sharp because they've cut themselves so often...I wasn't joking...

DONT TREAD ON ME wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:

DONT TREAD ON ME wrote:TPC 42.01 applies...

TPC 42.01 wrote: DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

If the guy thought he had cleared the gun, 42.01 should not apply.

I am betting they could get it to stick since he intentionally pulled the trigger. JMO.

Particularly since he did not himself clear the weapon before pulling the trigger. I don't care if you drop the magazine right in front of me, eject the chambered round, and hand me the pistol with the slide locked back or the cylinder open......I will check it myself again just to be sure.

ALL guns are loaded until you verify that they are not, and even then, you should handle them as if they are. If you can't follow that simple rule, then Darwin will fix that for you.

speedsix wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:

speedsix wrote: ...agree completely on this one!!! some folks just don't need sharp objects...or guns...

Hmmm how many times have I cut myself with a kitchen knife--more times than I can count. Do I know the proper way to handle kitchen knives--yep--so by that "one and you are done" philosophy should we take all the sharp objects out of my house? Now this is much more serious than a kitchen knife cut to a finger, but still. I am not comfortable making a person and their family vulnerable to every criminal element out there based on one stupid smack incident. I guess I see the right to have and carry a weapon as a right--not a privilege, and rights should only be revoked under the most serious of situations (felony convictions). Do we take a person's drivers liscense away based on one moment of negligence in which no one got hurt--no we don't, and a car is just as deadly of a weapon as any handgun.

...the two aren't even close...an accidental cut while preparing food is NOTHING like ignoring all the rules...it's by the grace of God that noone was injured or killed...and I KNOW more than one woman who won't let her knives be sharp because they've cut themselves so often...I wasn't joking...

An accident while preparing food is not even close--but an running off the road while driving a car is very similar. Both can be lethal, both require several saftey rules to have been broken by someone for it to occur. We don't take people's license away for that the first, second, or sometimes even the third time this happens. I see them as very similar. Incidentally I keep my knives as sharp as possible because the times I have cut myself the worst have usually been when I am exerting more force than should be needed to accomplish a task.

...perhaps the numerous gunshot wounds I've seen have predisposed me towards being intolerant...I've had three friends shot by idiots in "accidents"...I've also worked fatalities and grisly accidents where I found myself wanting to insure that the one who caused it never drove again...I stand by my opinion, though...intolerant or not...

speedsix wrote:...perhaps the numerous gunshot wounds I've seen have predisposed me towards being intolerant...I've had three friends shot by idiots in "accidents"...I've also worked fatalities and grisly accidents where I found myself wanting to insure that the one who caused it never drove again...I stand by my opinion, though...intolerant or not...

I understand, and had he actually injured someone (other than flooring) I would probably feel quite differently. As it stands now I see it as a "stupid smack" and a required remedial course on gun handling.

mamabearCali wrote:An accident while preparing food is not even close--but an running off the road while driving a car is very similar. Both can be lethal, both require several saftey rules to have been broken by someone for it to occur. We don't take people's license away for that the first, second, or sometimes even the third time this happens. I see them as very similar. Incidentally I keep my knives as sharp as possible because the times I have cut myself the worst have usually been when I am exerting more force than should be needed to accomplish a task.

I don't associate the running off the road to the same as this. Running off the road while driving would IMO be comparable to being on the range shooting and errantly sweeping someone with the muzzle or accidentally shooting someone else's target.

In this case, it was like someone wanting to see your new car parked in the garage. You open the garage door, and a crowd of people gather around it to see the car. Then, you get in and start it up, put it in gear, shove the gas pedal to the floor and go screaming out of the garage through the crowd of people and luckily you just didn't hit anyone on your way down the driveway. That person needs to be ticketed for careless and imprudent driving and potentially have their drivers license suspended or yanked.

speedsix wrote:...perhaps the numerous gunshot wounds I've seen have predisposed me towards being intolerant...I've had three friends shot by idiots in "accidents"...I've also worked fatalities and grisly accidents where I found myself wanting to insure that the one who caused it never drove again...I stand by my opinion, though...intolerant or not...

Again, more, still