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Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:59 am
by sjfcontrol
Humanphibian wrote:this is the part that always raised my brow :
§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
so....basically, if someone was toilet papering your home........????????
I guess so -- If you can defend the statement I highlighted in blue. Can you come up with some other way to stop the mischief?
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:25 am
by speedsix
...I have a pressure nozzle on my hose that'd wash them and their TP out to sea...no need for deadly force...
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:40 am
by Keith B
speedsix wrote:...I have a pressure nozzle on my hose that'd wash them and their TP out to sea...no need for deadly force...
If they drown after being washed out to sea, that could be considered negligent homicide.
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:46 am
by speedsix
...worse yet...pollution...
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:43 pm
by MasterOfNone
sjfcontrol wrote:Humanphibian wrote:this is the part that always raised my brow :
§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
so....basically, if someone was toilet papering your home........????????
I guess so -- If you can defend the statement I highlighted in blue. Can you come up with some other way to stop the mischief?
And we have to consider the green clause above.
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:49 pm
by Humanphibian
agreed with all about the requirements that must be met...but WHAT on earth kind of Criminal Mischief would meet those requirements???...lol
Some of the other crimes that are listed "could" at times perhaps meet them...but Criminal Mischief...REALLLLLY????
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:58 pm
by MasterOfNone
Humanphibian wrote:agreed with all about the requirements that must be met...but WHAT on earth kind of Criminal Mischief would meet those requirements???...lol
Some of the other crimes that are listed "could" at times perhaps meet them...but Criminal Mischief...REALLLLLY????
Perhaps this:
28.03. CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:
(1) he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys the tangible property of the owner
if the damage being done is significant.
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:16 pm
by sjfcontrol
Just a thought...
What about something dealing with the flow of water onto or through a property?
Especially if it endangered crops or livestock.
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:56 pm
by apostate
I'm struggling to understand why some have no problem with the "theft during the nighttime" clause but choke on the "criminal mischief during the nighttime" clause. Can someone explain that to me? It seems to me, whether the miscreant takes your stuff or destroys your stuff, you lose the stuff either way.
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:18 pm
by Humanphibian
because criminal mischief during the night time brings to mind kids TP'ing homes, shoe polishing cars, "forking yards"......all sorts of funny, innocent things that you would never associate as being under the umbrella of a crime where deadly force is an option to defend against.
If someone was outside your home beating your car to death with a bat IS shooting them the only way to stop it? Is it reasonable to do so?? Is it more reasonable if it were a Ferrari rather than a Honda? Would a jury see reasonable as shooting someone to save a car, or would calling calling 911 have been more prudent? Auto damage is what insurance is for.
is it reasonable to shoot a kid for rolling your house....NO. What if the kid is about to light the paper on fire?? If they light it (or attempt to) is it at that point criminal mischief...or an arson charge?
There are endless viewpoints and situations as to what may be reasonable and what may not be, what may be imminent danger and what may not, what may be the only means available to prevent and what other options exist......
just throwing stuff out to keep the discussion going
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:38 pm
by tommyg
I saw some kids on my street carrying large amounts of toilet paper
about midnight when I was on my way home from working a late shift
I shined a bright light on them they scattered and ran.
I called the police, the police drove around the area for a few minutes then left
I got some free toilet paper and put it to proper use
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:28 pm
by Ameer
tommyg wrote:I got some free toilet paper and put it to proper use
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:54 pm
by johnson0317
tommyg wrote:
I got some free toilet paper and put it to proper use
lol. I think some of those kids would have appreciated the loan of a roll or two!
RJ
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:24 pm
by tbrown
Re: Can You Shoot to Protect Property in TEXAS
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:26 am
by iratollah
Are there any different or specific laws relating to livestock rustlers?