TexasCHLforum.com

chuckybrown wrote:

gigag04 wrote:These sarcastic tongue in cheek posts are on the rise.

Hope this isn't becoming the new norm.

Gig, I respect you. A lot. I like reading your posts, because I really think you're one of the good guys.

But, as someone that's been around firearms since I was a baby, I just have a hard time being made fun or second guessed...OR....accused of somehow thinking like an "anti" because I didn't like a pistol pointing at me.

I guess i never should have posted in the first place. I was simply sharing my concerns.

I tend to agree with you, I don't like looking down barrels either. And I don't necessarily think that you're post alone is the issue. I think there is an influx of people that don't "get" the culture of this board, and they post things in such a way to merit sarcastic replies.

Niether party to such a transaction is blameless IMHO.

Well, just know that I'm not trying to troll to stir up trouble.

(Thanks for all you do for our State. I have a great fiend who's son is a DPS trooper in your part of the state. She's extremely proud of him....!!!!!!!!!!!)

Excaliber wrote:I have a simple rule:

Do whatever I have to in order to avoid having the end of a gun with the hole in it pointed at me.

No discussion. No exceptions. Period.

Relying on guesses about a gun's mechanical condition, cocked status, holster performance, or owner's skill to make me feel better about an obvious risk of perforation by allowing a violation of Rule 2 is just not for me.

YMMV.

Wienerdogtroy wrote:

Excaliber wrote:I have a simple rule:

Do whatever I have to in order to avoid having the end of a gun with the hole in it pointed at me.

No discussion. No exceptions. Period.

Relying on guesses about a gun's mechanical condition, cocked status, holster performance, or owner's skill to make me feel better about an obvious risk of perforation by allowing a violation of Rule 2 is just not for me.

YMMV.

I don't think there is any reason to get all worked up.

Some people agreed with you.

Some people didn't agree with you.

I disagreed with you, I don't think I was disrespectful, and I tried to present a logical rationale for my disagreement.

Sorry if it offended you, and I hope it doesn't make you not want to post.

Guys,

If we, the pro 2A rights, carry in a holster is safe, guns don't shoot themselves group can't seem to agree on the safety of an LEO carry weapon, how can we expect the anti-carry people to not feel the way THEY do? Does anyone here know of a verifiable story of a gun in a holster going off by itself? If the maintained and holstered firearm in my otherwise empty pocket is going to discharge by itself damaging my leg or knee, then perhaps I should reconsider my CHL decision. If the IWB holster on my hip will not protect me from shooting myself while walking or sitting, then perhaps I have been wrong in my beliefs.

I am not here to be PC; if we are just pro constitution for the 2nd amendment, but reject the 1st, how are we honest and not disingenuous? I absolutely respect someone's right to disagree with me. They can even call me a bad name, and I will live, but that is not the point I make. Are we ourselves safe in everyday carry or are we not? Can a LEO safely carry amongst the populace or can he not. If we here on this forum cannot believe what we have proclaimed, how can we expect opponents to believe us?

No vetting is done on this forum regarding membership application. Trolls can come here, antis, bad guys posting scenarios to learn how good guys might defend, it is wide open for seemingly innocuous posts which have a larger meaning, yet not so for others who respond to the bigger picture. If I am not to be allowed to point out potential, then you guys don't need anything I might say, and I can spend even more time in service to the work I do for my country. Elsewhere folks in high places appreciate my opinions.

sugar land dave wrote:Guys,

If we, the pro 2A rights, carry in a holster is safe, guns don't shoot themselves group can't seem to agree on the safety of an LEO carry weapon, how can we expect the anti-carry people to not feel the way THEY do? Does anyone here know of a verifiable story of a gun in a holster going off by itself? If the maintained and holstered firearm in my otherwise empty pocket is going to discharge by itself damaging my leg or knee, then perhaps I should reconsider my CHL decision. If the IWB holster on my hip will not protect me from shooting myself while walking or sitting, then perhaps I have been wrong in my beliefs.

I am not here to be PC; if we are just pro constitution for the 2nd amendment, but reject the 1st, how are we honest and not disingenuous? I absolutely respect someone's right to disagree with me. They can even call me a bad name, and I will live, but that is not the point I make. Are we ourselves safe in everyday carry or are we not? Can a LEO safely carry amongst the populace or can he not. If we here on this forum cannot believe what we have proclaimed, how can we expect opponents to believe us?

No vetting is done on this forum regarding membership application. Trolls can come here, antis, bad guys posting scenarios to learn how good guys might defend, it is wide open for seemingly innocuous posts which have a larger meaning, yet not so for others who respond to the bigger picture. If I am not to be allowed to point out potential, then you guys don't need anything I might say, and I can spend even more time in service to the work I do for my country. Elsewhere folks in high places appreciate my opinions.

You're of course right that guns in holsters don't go off by themselves.

However, folks have managed to discharge guns while they were in holsters or while they were trying to keep them from falling out of holsters often enough in the past that we know it can happen. With belt holsters they usually shoot themselves. With shoulder holsters they usually shoot others.

I'm not personally comfortable being just one small unforeseen circumstance or bit of clumsiness away from getting shot with a gun that's already pointed at me.

That doesn't make others who think otherwise wrong. Their situational analysis or risk tolerance is simply different than mine. As I said in my post, YMMV.

I don't think a reasoned difference of opinions among friends should be taken as any more than that. No two people will ever agree on everything, let alone a whole forum community.

A gun pointing at your head has more potential for danger than one pointing in a safe direction. Freak accidents are not the product of the paranoid.I am a industrial safety guy & have seen many anomalies. Metal fatigue does happen.

I am unsure about this LEO's judgement. Carrying his weapon in a crowded restaurant in such a manner is not prudent, how can I be sure that he hasnt radically tricked his gun out to the extreme? How do I know that his holster is not worn to the point that it is putting pressure on the trigger? Like the typically train LEO, the only weapon I trust is the one in my hand.

Im sure you guys remember this one:

http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firea ... ischarges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for your replies gentlemen though I am not sure where we are now going with this thread. I always check my holsters and weapons before they go out the door of my home. I would presume an officer would do so also since his life might depend on the proper draw and firearm operation. As for dis-arming that officer because he goes into a crowded property, I would say that I don't much like 30.06 limitation, and I can't call for such a thing for those who serve.

Good leadership is about being able to make tough choices even when they are not popular, especially to yourself. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils without being paralyzed by second guessing yourself. The OP made a good choice when he moved rather than sitting with anxiety while eating. No one was harmed and he resumed his meal though he suffered some moments of angst. I just can't get myself from there all the way to disarming the police when there is a crowded civilian business.

sugar land dave wrote:Thanks for your replies gentlemen though I am not sure where we are now going with this thread. I always check my holsters and weapons before they go out the door of my home. I would presume an officer would do so also since his life might depend on the proper draw and firearm operation. As for dis-arming that officer because he goes into a crowded property, I would say that I don't much like 30.06 limitation, and I can't call for such a thing for those who serve.

Good leadership is about being able to make tough choices even when they are not popular, especially to yourself. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils without being paralyzed by second guessing yourself. The OP made a good choice when he moved rather than sitting with anxiety while eating. No one was harmed and he resumed his me
al. I just can't get myself from there all the way to disarming the police when there is a crowded civilian business.

I'm with you on not going the "disarm" route for police. It doesn't make sense for CHL holders, and it certainly doesn't make sense for police.

Unfortunately I can tell you from first hand knowledge that, while many officers are extremely professional and very conscientious about maintaining proficiency and the proper condition of their weapons and support gear, that is by no means universal. Any police firearms instructor can tell you true stories of negligence that would curl your hair, and lots of police locker rooms have the bullet holes to prove it.

I also wouldn't presume to tell an officer how to carry his firearm. That's not my business (anymore).

With all that being said, you won't find me knowingly sitting in line with the muzzle of anyone's gun - that's for folks with more of a desire for adventure than mine.

I see several LEOs and soon to be former LEOs each week. They are salt of the earth guys in my opinion, and I think humanity is well represented by them when you look beyond the veneer. That said, I feel safer around them than I do driving in the Houston traffic each day. That doesn't mean that I will deliberately be in front of their weapon, or that i will will pull onto the freeway in front of a speeding semi, yet if I must do one or the other, I know which I will choose under my lesser of two evils principle.

BTW, lest anyone misunderstand, I am actually finding a way to enjoy this conversation. Thank you, Excaliber!

Excaliber wrote: Any police firearms instructor can tell you true stories of negligence that would curl your hair, and lots of police locker rooms have the bullet holes to prove it.

Yep, I even know of a ND from a Glock by the department armorer.
The round went through the wall and into the CIB (detective's) office area. Luckily there was no one in that office area at the time. The building was once an old hospital and the walls were lath and plaster with wire mesh, so they had a lot of influence on slowing down the .40 caliber round, so most of the energy had been spent before it hit the wall on the far side of the room and didn't penetrate. Had it passed through the second wall, the next office it would have entered belonged to the city manager, and he WAS at his desk.

sugar land dave wrote:I see several LEOs and soon to be former LEOs each week. They are salt of the earth guys in my opinion, and I think humanity is well represented by them when you look beyond the veneer. That said, I feel safer around them than I do driving in the Houston traffic each day. That doesn't mean that I will deliberately be in front of their weapon, or that i will will pull onto the freeway in front of a speeding semi, yet if I must do one or the other, I know which I will choose under my lesser of two evils principle.

BTW, lest anyone misunderstand, I am actually finding a way to enjoy this conversation. Thank you, Excaliber!

I'm glad I could lend a hand here.

And I'm with you about that Houston traffic - that's why most days when I'm not traveling I stop at the park and ride and take the Metro bus into downtown. It might not be sexy, but it is relaxing, safe, and faster because it's HOV lane all the way with no speeding semis allowed.

By the time I get to work, I've caught up on all the news sites on my Blackberry, and there's usually a uniformed deputy or two on board doing their own commutes to make it even better.

Sorry to have gotten sideways.

Sugar Land Dave is right, we need to be able to discuss, and we don't always agree.

Sincerely: Sugar Land Chuck (guess we're neighbors....)

Sugar Land Chuck,

Happy to have another from our small part of town.