TexasCHLforum.com

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:Well wait a minute, please offer your insight as a peace officer on my questions first and I will be happy to answer yours, that is after all the way to have a courteous discussion. If you pulled me over for speeding 5mph over, ran my plate and it is not stolen, saw I had no warrants out for my arrest, insurance was current, nothing else suspicious how would you know I had an AZ CHL? And if I had a gun in the console and I didn't have a CHL am I required by law to disclose that to you without you asking? If not why would I have less protections for having a CHL vs. NOT having one?

I'll break it down for more direct Q & A. But be advised, this is 100% IMO.

Stand by while I'll compile A response with appropriate information from our Texas Laws.

sounds good, thanks for the information.

paxton25 wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:Well wait a minute, please offer your insight as a peace officer on my questions first and I will be happy to answer yours, that is after all the way to have a courteous discussion. If you pulled me over for speeding 5mph over, ran my plate and it is not stolen, saw I had no warrants out for my arrest, insurance was current, nothing else suspicious how would you know I had an AZ CHL? And if I had a gun in the console and I didn't have a CHL am I required by law to disclose that to you without you asking? If not why would I have less protections for having a CHL vs. NOT having one?

I'll break it down for more direct Q & A. But be advised, this is 100% IMO.

Stand by while I'll compile A response with appropriate information from our Texas Laws.

sounds good, thanks for the information.

You do bring up good a good point though, there is a big loophole in this "law." As we all know though, there are terrible cops out there. Even I get harassed by neighboring departments, just because it's "their way." It is kinda along the lines of conceal carrying past a prohibited place that is incorrectly posted, and having a defense to prosecution, but not being able to skip the ride. We may be able to do things legally in our eyes, doesn't mean some d-bag robo-cop can't use the law to his advantage. Regardless of the moralities of it, a peace officer can sometimes "make up" their own reasons to arrest you, just because they don't like your attitude. I just don't want anybody here pushing the line and paying for it, like some of those guys that go around "beating border patrol checkpoints," it sometimes ends up badly for them, despite the fact that they are technically and legally in the right. (Most of the time, I can't account for all of the videos of course.)

mojo84 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:I am surprised no one has mentioned it but while the law says you are to provide your CHL when asked to identify there is no penalty for not doing so. In essence it is a law with no teeth.

True but I would advise against this with any LEO. They could decide to arrest you on a minor class C traffic offense also. I once arrested a known meth cook for no license plate light just to keep him from cooking that night.

Interesting. Was he driving on the campus?

No, this was when I was a deputy for another county. This guy was pure scum.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

paxton25 wrote:Well wait a minute, please offer your insight as a peace officer on my questions first and I will be happy to answer yours, that is after all the way to have a courteous discussion. If you pulled me over for speeding 5mph over, ran my plate and it is not stolen, saw I had no warrants out for my arrest, insurance was current, nothing else suspicious how would you know I had an AZ CHL? And if I had a gun in the console and I didn't have a CHL am I required by law to disclose that to you without you asking? If not why would I have less protections for having a CHL vs. NOT having one?

I'll break it down for more direct Q & A. But be advised, this is 100% IMO.

Stand by while I'll compile A response with appropriate information from our Texas Laws.

sounds good, thanks for the information.

You do bring up good a good point though, there is a big loophole in this "law." As we all know though, there are terrible cops out there. Even I get harassed by neighboring departments, just because it's "their way." It is kinda along the lines of conceal carrying past a prohibited place that is incorrectly posted, and having a defense to prosecution, but not being able to skip the ride. We may be able to do things legally in our eyes, doesn't mean some d-bag robo-cop can't use the law to his advantage. Regardless of the moralities of it, a peace officer can sometimes "make up" their own reasons to arrest you, just because they don't like your attitude. I just don't want anybody here pushing the line and paying for it, like some of those guys that go around "beating border patrol checkpoints," it sometimes ends up badly for them, despite the fact that they are technically and legally in the right. (Most of the time, I can't account for all of the videos of course.)

I 100% agree that people should be aware of what they can do if they want but they do need to factor in they might not be dealing with someone that understands or is friendly to their rights or the law. I don't concern myself because I have multiple layers of legal protection but not everyone does.

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

IF you have a CHL and are asked for ID, and you are carrying under your CHL or under MPA, you must present your CHL. It doesn't matter under which authority you are carrying, if you have a CHL and a concealed handgun, you must present the CHL.

gljjt wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

IF you have a CHL and are asked for ID, and you are carrying under your CHL or under MPA, you must present your CHL. It doesn't matter under which authority you are carrying, if you have a CHL and a concealed handgun, you must present the CHL.

And what happens if I don't?

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

IF you have a CHL and are asked for ID, and you are carrying under your CHL or under MPA, you must present your CHL. It doesn't matter under which authority you are carrying, if you have a CHL and a concealed handgun, you must present the CHL.

And what happens if I don't?

You get a ticket for broken tailight cover and burned out license plate light. Probably failure to maintain safe distance and maybe driving over the solid white/yellow line.

gljjt wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

IF you have a CHL and are asked for ID, and you are carrying under your CHL or under MPA, you must present your CHL. It doesn't matter under which authority you are carrying, if you have a CHL and a concealed handgun, you must present the CHL.

And what happens if I don't?

You get a ticket for broken tailight cover and burned out license plate light. Probably failure to maintain safe distance and maybe driving over the solid white/yellow line.

I have a lot more faith in police officers than you do, the vast majority of them aren't [abbreviated profanity deleted.] that I know. OK, so we agree there is no penalty for something you claim I MUST do right? And again, how would the officer know during a routine traffic stop that I was not disclosing something to him that he didn't know about?

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

IF you have a CHL and are asked for ID, and you are carrying under your CHL or under MPA, you must present your CHL. It doesn't matter under which authority you are carrying, if you have a CHL and a concealed handgun, you must present the CHL.

And what happens if I don't?

You get a ticket for broken tailight cover and burned out license plate light. Probably failure to maintain safe distance and maybe driving over the solid white/yellow line.

I have a lot more faith in police officers than you do, the vast majority of them aren't [abbreviated profanity deleted.] that I know. OK, so we agree there is no penalty for something you claim I MUST do right? And again, how would the officer know during a routine traffic stop that I was not disclosing something to him that he didn't know about?

I was joking about the tickets. Sorry that wasn't clear. He probably wouldn't know if it were an out of state license. But to obey the law you must disclose. I think it is in your best interest to do so. If he asks if there are weapons in the car (and there are) you can say nothing (legal, but could cause you problems), lie (illegal), tell the truth. What if you are within 1000' of a school property? Without as Texas CHL you are violating the law. Where do you draw the line on what laws you obey?

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

IF you have a CHL and are asked for ID, and you are carrying under your CHL or under MPA, you must present your CHL. It doesn't matter under which authority you are carrying, if you have a CHL and a concealed handgun, you must present the CHL.

And what happens if I don't?

You get a ticket for broken tailight cover and burned out license plate light. Probably failure to maintain safe distance and maybe driving over the solid white/yellow line.

I have a lot more faith in police officers than you do, the vast majority of them aren't [abbreviated profanity deleted.] that I know. OK, so we agree there is no penalty for something you claim I MUST do right? And again, how would the officer know during a routine traffic stop that I was not disclosing something to him that he didn't know about?

If he had you step out and decided to perform a "stop and frisk" as allowed by Terry v Ohio whenever an officer has "reasonable fear" that you may be carrying a weapon. If this ever occurs get ready to eat the pavement.

gljjt wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

IF you have a CHL and are asked for ID, and you are carrying under your CHL or under MPA, you must present your CHL. It doesn't matter under which authority you are carrying, if you have a CHL and a concealed handgun, you must present the CHL.

And what happens if I don't?

You get a ticket for broken tailight cover and burned out license plate light. Probably failure to maintain safe distance and maybe driving over the solid white/yellow line.

I have a lot more faith in police officers than you do, the vast majority of them aren't [abbreviated profanity deleted.] that I know. OK, so we agree there is no penalty for something you claim I MUST do right? And again, how would the officer know during a routine traffic stop that I was not disclosing something to him that he didn't know about?

I was joking about the tickets. Sorry that wasn't clear. He probably wouldn't know if it were an out of state license. But to obey the law you must disclose. I think it is in your best interest to do so. If he asks if there are weapons in the car (and there are) you can say nothing (legal, but could cause you problems), lie (illegal), tell the truth. What if you are within 1000' of a school property? Without as Texas CHL you are violating the law. Where do you draw the line on what laws you obey?

I obey all constitutional laws that have a penalty of law proscribed to them. There, pretty easy.

nightmare69 wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

IF you have a CHL and are asked for ID, and you are carrying under your CHL or under MPA, you must present your CHL. It doesn't matter under which authority you are carrying, if you have a CHL and a concealed handgun, you must present the CHL.

And what happens if I don't?

You get a ticket for broken tailight cover and burned out license plate light. Probably failure to maintain safe distance and maybe driving over the solid white/yellow line.

I have a lot more faith in police officers than you do, the vast majority of them aren't [abbreviated profanity deleted.] that I know. OK, so we agree there is no penalty for something you claim I MUST do right? And again, how would the officer know during a routine traffic stop that I was not disclosing something to him that he didn't know about?

If he had you step out and decided to perform a "stop and frisk" as allowed by Terry v Ohio whenever an officer has "reasonable fear" that you may be carrying a weapon. If this ever occurs get ready to eat the pavement.

OK and so how does that answer the question? When I have my firearm in the vehicle it isn't on my person.

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote:

Keith B wrote:

paxton25 wrote: If you are carrying under the authority of yoru CHL, you must legally present your permit, no matter what state it's from, to a law enforcement officer when asked for ID in Texas.

I wouldn't present even if I had a Texas CHL, a law with no penalty really isn't a "must"

Actually, it is still the law and is a "must'. HOWEVER, while in your car you could claim you are carrying under the Motorist Protection Act which requires no license. If you are outside of your vehicle and not on property you are in control of, then you legally 'must' present your license or you are breaking the law, penalty or not.

IF you have a CHL and are asked for ID, and you are carrying under your CHL or under MPA, you must present your CHL. It doesn't matter under which authority you are carrying, if you have a CHL and a concealed handgun, you must present the CHL.

And what happens if I don't?

You get a ticket for broken tailight cover and burned out license plate light. Probably failure to maintain safe distance and maybe driving over the solid white/yellow line.

I have a lot more faith in police officers than you do, the vast majority of them aren't [abbreviated profanity deleted.] that I know. OK, so we agree there is no penalty for something you claim I MUST do right? And again, how would the officer know during a routine traffic stop that I was not disclosing something to him that he didn't know about?

I was joking about the tickets. Sorry that wasn't clear. He probably wouldn't know if it were an out of state license. But to obey the law you must disclose. I think it is in your best interest to do so. If he asks if there are weapons in the car (and there are) you can say nothing (legal, but could cause you problems), lie (illegal), tell the truth. What if you are within 1000' of a school property? Without as Texas CHL you are violating the law. Where do you draw the line on what laws you obey?

I obey all constitutional laws that have a penalty of law proscribed to them. There, pretty easy.

So you don't drive in Texas with an out of state CHL because there is no way to drive any distance in an urban or suburban area w/o passing through a federal gun free school zone. This is a felony. Jail time if convicted.

I stand by my previous statement.

nightmare69 wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:We are peace officers and have full authority on any property owned, leased, or under our control like traveling to an althelic event. We have full access to TCIC/NCIC as well. As far as I know you cannot carry under CHL because we are an educational institution. I will have to ask our attorney about that.

Looking back, I can't be certain what he meant by "stopped." He would be lawful if he was pulled over, but not if he was just walking around campus with our current laws. I made the assumption that the OP was talking about getting pulled over by university police.

We can stop anyone for any reason or no reason at all. We are a private university operating on private property. I can tell someone to leave because I don't like the color of his shoes. Public property is a different story, you must have probable cause.

Correction any LEGAL reason. You can't stop someone based on their ethnicity alone. Same for asking them to leave.