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AJSully421 wrote: I just don't see the OC thing being too much of a problem. Best chances are that if you walk in to any grocery store or shop in town that either no one will notice, they will assume you are a cop or security (If you are dressed decently), or worst case, you will be approached by a manager and asked to leave because you are OCing. Go out to your car, toss on your concealment rig, and go right back in.

Finally, we may have hit on something that is worthy of a more detailed discussion! If you are OCing and are asked to leave, would that verbal notice prevent you from being able to return with a concealed firearm?

TexasCajun wrote:

AJSully421 wrote: I just don't see the OC thing being too much of a problem. Best chances are that if you walk in to any grocery store or shop in town that either no one will notice, they will assume you are a cop or security (If you are dressed decently), or worst case, you will be approached by a manager and asked to leave because you are OCing. Go out to your car, toss on your concealment rig, and go right back in.

Finally, we may have hit on something that is worthy of a more detailed discussion! If you are OCing and are asked to leave, would that verbal notice prevent you from being able to return with a concealed firearm?

That is a good point of discussion that you have brought up. My stance would be that it would all depend on the words used in the verbal notice. If the manager said "We do not allow guns in here." I could see that covering both OC and CC. Now, if they said "We do not allow open carry of firearms", I would step out to the truck and grab my concealment holster and walk right back in.

Even if they said "no guns"... you could ask specifically, "So you are saying that you prohibit only the open carry of firearms?" they will not know the nuance of the law and reply "that's right", and that would give you the cover to go out and conceal. Then, should it go to court, it becomes a "Well, it is true that I said X but what I really meant was Y". After all, you would walk right back in without a pistol visible on your hip... how would they know that you did not leave it out in your vehicle? Only way that they would know is if you have to use it. The chances of that in most cases are insanely low. And if you have to use your pistol... then you have bigger problems than did a verbal notice satisfy the requirements of 30.07 and not 30.06.

AJSully421 wrote:

TexasCajun wrote:

AJSully421 wrote: I just don't see the OC thing being too much of a problem. Best chances are that if you walk in to any grocery store or shop in town that either no one will notice, they will assume you are a cop or security (If you are dressed decently), or worst case, you will be approached by a manager and asked to leave because you are OCing. Go out to your car, toss on your concealment rig, and go right back in.

Finally, we may have hit on something that is worthy of a more detailed discussion! If you are OCing and are asked to leave, would that verbal notice prevent you from being able to return with a concealed firearm?

That is a good point of discussion that you have brought up. My stance would be that it would all depend on the words used in the verbal notice. If the manager said "We do not allow guns in here." I could see that covering both OC and CC. Now, if they said "We do not allow open carry of firearms", I would step out to the truck and grab my concealment holster and walk right back in.

Even if they said "no guns"... you could ask specifically, "So you are saying that you prohibit only the open carry of firearms?" they will not know the nuance of the law and reply "that's right", and that would give you the cover to go out and conceal. Then, should it go to court, it becomes a "Well, it is true that I said X but what I really meant was Y". After all, you would walk right back in without a pistol visible on your hip... how would they know that you did not leave it out in your vehicle? Only way that they would know is if you have to use it. The chances of that in most cases are insanely low. And if you have to use your pistol... then you have bigger problems than did a verbal notice satisfy the requirements of 30.07 and not 30.06.

I don't know about that. When you conceal and re-enter, you're now open to a he-said-she-said situation if your concealed gun is somehow discovered or even suspected. You'd have to depend on the manger accurately recalling the exact words of the conversation and hope that what they meant doesn't get substituted for what was said.

Over 90% of driving deaths are caused by sober drivers. We need to get them off the road. We should have random stops for people that might have been speeding.

ScottDLS wrote:Over 90% of driving deaths are caused by sober drivers. We need to get them off the road. We should have random stops for people that might have been speeding.

Blood in the streets, I say! Blood in the streets!

Wait. That really is blood in the streets.

I have pointed out this glaring example before but it does no good.

How often has this been an issue in say, AZ ? They've had open carry for a very long time and I haven't heard of this being a problem. Not even in Tombstone !

RetNavy wrote:this just popped in my head this morning..... I am right handed, i carry on my right side..... wallet is in the back right pocket..... open carrying.... stopped by a LEO and asked for ID.... reach back with right hand to get wallet.... LEO sees hand going towards weapon... ??????

I was stopped on my bike once. Just like on a car's steering wheel, I kept my hands on the handlebars, and informed the policeman I had a CHL and was armed. He said "just keep your hands away from the gun, driver's license and registration please" I laughed and said "the wallet is right next to the gun on my right hip". He laughed too, and said "just no quick moves please".

He still gave me the speeding ticket ;)

joe817 wrote:Either that, or tell the LEO where your wallet is BEFORE you start reaching for it. Even if he doesn't ask, tell him anyway.

Exactly!

ScooterSissy wrote:

RetNavy wrote:this just popped in my head this morning..... I am right handed, i carry on my right side..... wallet is in the back right pocket..... open carrying.... stopped by a LEO and asked for ID.... reach back with right hand to get wallet.... LEO sees hand going towards weapon... ??????

I was stopped on my bike once. Just like on a car's steering wheel, I kept my hands on the handlebars, and informed the policeman I had a CHL and was armed. He said "just keep your hands away from the gun, driver's license and registration please" I laughed and said "the wallet is right next to the gun on my right hip". He laughed too, and said "just no quick moves please".

He still gave me the speeding ticket ;)

joe817 wrote:Either that, or tell the LEO where your wallet is BEFORE you start reaching for it. Even if he doesn't ask, tell him anyway.

Exactly!

You know this is really horse hockey!!!! What the "heck" is speeding on a bicycle?

Funny story, I was running once in my town and the local police had a speed sign/camera up. I really got my fat rear moving and I was at 7mph. Local cop gave me a thumbs up . What if I was in a 3mph zone? Would they give me a ticket?

ScottDLS wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote:

RetNavy wrote:this just popped in my head this morning..... I am right handed, i carry on my right side..... wallet is in the back right pocket..... open carrying.... stopped by a LEO and asked for ID.... reach back with right hand to get wallet.... LEO sees hand going towards weapon... ??????

I was stopped on my bike once. Just like on a car's steering wheel, I kept my hands on the handlebars, and informed the policeman I had a CHL and was armed. He said "just keep your hands away from the gun, driver's license and registration please" I laughed and said "the wallet is right next to the gun on my right hip". He laughed too, and said "just no quick moves please".

He still gave me the speeding ticket ;)

joe817 wrote:Either that, or tell the LEO where your wallet is BEFORE you start reaching for it. Even if he doesn't ask, tell him anyway.

Exactly!

You know this is really horse hockey!!!! What the "heck" is speeding on a bicycle?

Funny story, I was running once in my town and the local police had a speed sign/camera up. I really got my fat rear moving and I was at 7mph. Local cop gave me a thumbs up . What if I was in a 3mph zone? Would they give me a ticket?

You remind me of my orthopedic surgeon a couple years back. (Alert - Another funny story coming)
I had to have an ACL replacement. The doc asked me about my hobbies. I told him sailing and my bike. He told me I'd have to give up both for a while, sailing because of the movement from deck to deck, and the bike for obvious reasons. About 2 months after the surgery, I asked if I could be cleared for both, and he said OK on the sailboat, but not on the bike. I wasn't happy, and told him I could see how riding the bike in for long periods of time might make the knee stiff, but I didn't see how it would be much worse than sitting a long time. Then he dropped the bombshell. He said he was concerned about the stress on the knee as I pedaled.

I literally laughed out loud. Then I asked him, do I really look like someone who rides a bicycle? (I was 56 at the time, 6'0" and 285).

As I told him, I was talking about a motorcycle.

AndyC wrote:

TexasCajun wrote:Finally, we may have hit on something that is worthy of a more detailed discussion! If you are OCing and are asked to leave, would that verbal notice prevent you from being able to return with a concealed firearm?

If I was asked to leave, I'd simply ask "I understand. If I conceal it, may I come back in?" - whatever the response, I'd then know without having to guess or play silly games on someone else's property; I'd simply respect their wishes.

I think I would say something like "So you don't allow open carry of firearms in your establishment?" If they just give a confirmation of that, it leaves it open for concealed. If you mention concealed carry at all, there are those that will reflexively say no.

The only problem I have with OC is gonna be deciding which new full size gun am I gonna get to OC with. Otherwise the police should stick to hasseling those who are engaging in unlawful activity. Do they stop every car to see if tbe driver has a license?

I think the mentioned issue was solved nicely by today's amendment. As long as the Senate doesn't try to strip it out that is.