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Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:55 am
by bulinm
I would have thought that putting the cigarette out was officer safety. Certainly wouldn't
want one in my face when a fight started.
Oh, well, the fact that the all the hand wringers are gripin' about the traffic stop, instead of
bemoaning the suicide, supports my opinion that some folks just want LEOs to leave 'em
alone to do as they please. Mess with them, and they try to destroy you. That's the new
reality.
She JUST made an illegal lane change, he was JUST selling cigarettes, he was JUST walking
in the middle of the road, he was JUST smokin' a joint, he was JUST burglarizin' a house....
ad nauseum. If he hadn't stopped her/him they'd be alive today.
Dumbfounded.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:02 am
by suthdj
Sorry, what I got from the article was comply or suffer the wrath of abuse of power. Its simple if you dont have the authority to ask some not to smoke then you dont ask, period. The analogy of a 911 call is bogus as a paid public employee they have a job as a citizen we have expectations of the job being done. That being said I dont smoke so no biggie and I do teach my kids to comply, only to avoid the abuse of power or in some cases the unnecessary use of power which my son finds out every time he shoots off his mouth. He's a slow learner I guess.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:29 am
by nightmare69
suthdj wrote:
Sorry, what I got from the article was comply or suffer the wrath of abuse of power. Its simple if you dont have the authority to ask some not to smoke then you dont ask, period. The analogy of a 911 call is bogus as a paid public employee they have a job as a citizen we have expectations of the job being done. That being said I dont smoke so no biggie and I do teach my kids to comply, only to avoid the abuse of power or in some cases the unnecessary use of power which my son finds out every time he shoots off his mouth. He's a slow learner I guess.
He didn't abuse his power, he was well within his rights as a peace officer. You can flex your rights during a stop and so can LEOs. Police do have the right to have you step out and can arrest for a simple traffic violation. All this woman had to do was comply and she would have drove off with a warning that should could have later made into a paper airplane.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:00 pm
by nightmare69
bulinm wrote:I would have thought that putting the cigarette out was officer safety. Certainly wouldn't
want one in my face when a fight started.
Oh, well, the fact that the all the hand wringers are gripin' about the traffic stop, instead of
bemoaning the suicide, supports my opinion that some folks just want LEOs to leave 'em
alone to do as they please. Mess with them, and they try to destroy you. That's the new
reality.
She JUST made an illegal lane change, he was JUST selling cigarettes, he was JUST walking
in the middle of the road, he was JUST smokin' a joint, he was JUST burglarizin' a house....
ad nauseum. If he hadn't stopped her/him they'd be alive today.
Dumbfounded.
The reality is this, anytime a white police officer uses force against a African American it's automatically viewed as racism. There are incidents of black officers using deadly force against white suspects but the media never reports on these. The media only wants to portray evil white officers murdering innocent black victims. I apologize if this is a little blunt but this is the reality we live in today.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:34 pm
by suthdj
nightmare69 wrote:suthdj wrote:
Sorry, what I got from the article was comply or suffer the wrath of abuse of power. Its simple if you dont have the authority to ask some not to smoke then you dont ask, period. The analogy of a 911 call is bogus as a paid public employee they have a job as a citizen we have expectations of the job being done. That being said I dont smoke so no biggie and I do teach my kids to comply, only to avoid the abuse of power or in some cases the unnecessary use of power which my son finds out every time he shoots off his mouth. He's a slow learner I guess.
He didn't abuse his power, he was well within his rights as a peace officer. You can flex your rights during a stop and so can LEOs. Police do have the right to have you step out and can arrest for a simple traffic violation. All this woman had to do was comply and she would have drove off with a warning that should could have later made into a paper airplane.
True, but did he have the right to ask her to put out cigarette?
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:37 pm
by Javier730
nightmare69 wrote:bulinm wrote:I would have thought that putting the cigarette out was officer safety. Certainly wouldn't
want one in my face when a fight started.
Oh, well, the fact that the all the hand wringers are gripin' about the traffic stop, instead of
bemoaning the suicide, supports my opinion that some folks just want LEOs to leave 'em
alone to do as they please. Mess with them, and they try to destroy you. That's the new
reality.
She JUST made an illegal lane change, he was JUST selling cigarettes, he was JUST walking
in the middle of the road, he was JUST smokin' a joint, he was JUST burglarizin' a house....
ad nauseum. If he hadn't stopped her/him they'd be alive today.
Dumbfounded.
The reality is this, anytime a white police officer uses force against a African American it's automatically viewed as racism. There are incidents of black officers using deadly force against white suspects but the media never reports on these. The media only wants to portray evil white officers murdering innocent black victims. I apologize if this is a little blunt but this is the reality we live in today.
One example of the media twisting things to make cop sound bad is when michael Brown was shot. In any other case Michael Brown or anyone his age would of been addressed as a man but the media reported a police officer shooting a teen to make it sound worse.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:52 pm
by mojo84
suthdj wrote:nightmare69 wrote:suthdj wrote:
Sorry, what I got from the article was comply or suffer the wrath of abuse of power. Its simple if you dont have the authority to ask some not to smoke then you dont ask, period. The analogy of a 911 call is bogus as a paid public employee they have a job as a citizen we have expectations of the job being done. That being said I dont smoke so no biggie and I do teach my kids to comply, only to avoid the abuse of power or in some cases the unnecessary use of power which my son finds out every time he shoots off his mouth. He's a slow learner I guess.
He didn't abuse his power, he was well within his rights as a peace officer. You can flex your rights during a stop and so can LEOs. Police do have the right to have you step out and can arrest for a simple traffic violation. All this woman had to do was comply and she would have drove off with a warning that should could have later made into a paper airplane.
True, but did he have the right to ask her to put out cigarette?
Wouldn't that fall under "officer safety"?
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:08 pm
by carlson1
With her attitude and her past drug arrest he may have suspected drug use at that moment. Many times when you stop a drug user they will immediate light up a cigarette to try and mask the odor.
Just a thought.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:24 pm
by C-dub
nightmare69 wrote:tomtexan wrote:nightmare69, as a LEO what do you think was his reasoning for asking her to extinguish the cigarette?
Have you ever asked a person to put one out during a traffic stop?
She had the right to smoke but I feel like he asked her to put it out so when he had her step out she wouldn't have anything in her hand. She was just doing it to be a jerk. I've had people taking on their phones and ignoring me during a traffic stop so I wrote them citations for everything I could find. We had a female who was brought into jail last week for refusing to sign a citation. She was also ignoring the officer talking on her phone. She learned a hard lesson. It pays to be courteous and comply.
It's been many many years and my memory might be a bit fuzzy, but I thought it didn't matter whether or not a person signed their citation. It seems that what the officer told me when writing me one for speeding through one of those little speed trap towns south of Dallas. Is refusing to sign one really an arrestable offense? Arrestable, I think it's a new word.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:31 pm
by Charles L. Cotton
Folks, we need to be careful about using the word "right" when we actually are asking whether something was unlawful. In a legal setting, a "right" refers to the ability to act or not act that is protected by a constitution or statute. The Trooper didn't have a "right" to ask her to put out her cigarette, but it wasn't unlawful.
Chas.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:08 pm
by Charles L. Cotton
carlson1 wrote:With her attitude and her past drug arrest he may have suspected drug use at that moment. Many times when you stop a drug user they will immediate light up a cigarette to try and mask the odor.
Just a thought.
You may be onto something Carl. Read this article:
http://www.chron.com/news/article/Walle ... to-8366703" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Chas.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:34 pm
by txglock21
Texas_Blaze wrote:txglock21 wrote:...If a police officer asks me to do a tap dance on the roof of my car, I will and then file a complaint a later time...
So in my opinion, I don't see the need for the officer to ask her to put out her cigarette. Say she complied, would she have much luck in suing? Not likely. Can you imagine the ridicule of such a lawsuit? A complaint would do little also, unless it went to the media and served their purpose. Thus, it appears to me, that having the authority provides some the opportunity to push the bounds with little consequence because they can, and get a feeling of dominance while appearing justified.
As you stated at the start of your comment, this is your opinion. I respectfully disagree. I already stated that the officer COULD have handled it differently, but all she had to do is comply and we wouldn't be going on 6 pages of comments about it. Next time you get pulled over, you handle it however you see fit. I will do what the officer tells me do and if I have an issue, I will follow up later with someone above him, but at least I will be going home that day to my family.
BTW: I never said anything about suing or a lawsuit. I may be wrong, but I missed the part of where she was arrested for failure to put out her cigarette.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:58 pm
by EEllis
suthdj wrote:nightmare69 wrote:suthdj wrote:
Sorry, what I got from the article was comply or suffer the wrath of abuse of power. Its simple if you dont have the authority to ask some not to smoke then you dont ask, period. The analogy of a 911 call is bogus as a paid public employee they have a job as a citizen we have expectations of the job being done. That being said I dont smoke so no biggie and I do teach my kids to comply, only to avoid the abuse of power or in some cases the unnecessary use of power which my son finds out every time he shoots off his mouth. He's a slow learner I guess.
He didn't abuse his power, he was well within his rights as a peace officer. You can flex your rights during a stop and so can LEOs. Police do have the right to have you step out and can arrest for a simple traffic violation. All this woman had to do was comply and she would have drove off with a warning that should could have later made into a paper airplane.
True, but did he have the right to ask her to put out cigarette?
He can ask just about anything but can he make her? I think you know it depends almost entirely on why he asked her to do so. Also it may be that while she didn't have to put out her cig the officer didn't have to issue a warning. I don't think there is a time before he ends the custodial stop where the officer can't decide that while a persons actions and attitude may not in and of themselves be cause for arrest but that if they want to be a pain then the officer has no reason not to go ahead and arrest for an offence. You can talk yourself into an arrest just like you can talk yourself into a ticket.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:24 pm
by nightmare69
suthdj wrote:nightmare69 wrote:suthdj wrote:
Sorry, what I got from the article was comply or suffer the wrath of abuse of power. Its simple if you dont have the authority to ask some not to smoke then you dont ask, period. The analogy of a 911 call is bogus as a paid public employee they have a job as a citizen we have expectations of the job being done. That being said I dont smoke so no biggie and I do teach my kids to comply, only to avoid the abuse of power or in some cases the unnecessary use of power which my son finds out every time he shoots off his mouth. He's a slow learner I guess.
He didn't abuse his power, he was well within his rights as a peace officer. You can flex your rights during a stop and so can LEOs. Police do have the right to have you step out and can arrest for a simple traffic violation. All this woman had to do was comply and she would have drove off with a warning that should could have later made into a paper airplane.
True, but did he have the right to ask her to put out cigarette?
He can ask her anything he wants however he doesn't have the right to force her to put it out. I've asked suspects on calls to put out their cigarette because I was going to make an arrest and didn't want to get burned.
Re: Young woman changes lane without signal found dead in ja
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:42 pm
by nightmare69
C-dub wrote:nightmare69 wrote:tomtexan wrote:nightmare69, as a LEO what do you think was his reasoning for asking her to extinguish the cigarette?
Have you ever asked a person to put one out during a traffic stop?
She had the right to smoke but I feel like he asked her to put it out so when he had her step out she wouldn't have anything in her hand. She was just doing it to be a jerk. I've had people taking on their phones and ignoring me during a traffic stop so I wrote them citations for everything I could find. We had a female who was brought into jail last week for refusing to sign a citation. She was also ignoring the officer talking on her phone. She learned a hard lesson. It pays to be courteous and comply.
It's been many many years and my memory might be a bit fuzzy, but I thought it didn't matter whether or not a person signed their citation. It seems that what the officer told me when writing me one for speeding through one of those little speed trap towns south of Dallas. Is refusing to sign one really an arrestable offense? Arrestable, I think it's a new word.
What I was told by our local municipal court judge is a ticket is basically a PR bond and signing it is just a promise to take care of it either by paying the fee or setting a court date. I asked an attorney the same thing but after 15mins in he lost me.