Texas Open Carry – Positive

[baseballguy2001]

It seems to me we already have a 'motorist protection act' ... it's called the written and driving tests before you are issued a Drivers License. And if one lets your DL expire, you have to pass the written and driving tests again.

I'm perfectly happy to let anybody handle whatever they want in their own homes or property. (guess what? It's legal to openly carry in your home or business, or on your property) As for public gun ranges, they have Range Officers at the public ranges I support and if somebody is careless and a Range Officer sees them, well, lets just say there are no refunds.

I have a CHL and carry everyday, and it gives me great comfort.

[frazzled]

Recent events in Mexico, especially the borders areas, are an extreme cause of concern.
WARNING: the Frazzled has been converted (slightly)
Intent: permit OC with local capacity to restrict, while also keeping OC out of those who cannot legally own guns to begin with. Because CHL is a substantially higher standard, separate signage restricting CHL will still be required. Penalties for not meeting the terms of the OC are meant to be harsh, to keep yayhoos from ruining our rights.

As such, Proposed:

*OC is permitted in the State of Texas. Local jurisdictions are capable, under local ordnance, to limit OC to long guns.
Intent and reasoning: This will enable the good citizens to tailor reasonable limitations to their specific locales. It will help getting metropolitan politicians onside and mitigates their fears of yahoos walking around with 9mm trying to be macho.

*To utilize your rights to OC, a permit is required. To obtain a permit you must be capable of legally purchasing a firearm in Texas (potential thought that any actual OC implement must have been acquired by said person).
Intent and reasoning: This will mitigate the fear that persons who obtained weapons illegally, are mentally defective etc will be walking around with OC.

*Carrying of a weapon without an OC permit, CHL permit, or otherwise permitted under law will result in a CLASS A FELONY.
Intent and reasoning: This provides incentive for those to abide by the requirements of OC and keeps OC out of the hands of nutjobs, criminals intent on mischief, and macho wannabees. I have no issues with Draconian punishment if the law is free, easy to understand, and fair.

*OCs may be restricted by sign (define sign to be substantially less burdensome than 30.06 requirements). Said sign will not impact CHLs which will continue to require the 30.06 sign.
Intent and reasoning: Because there is a higher standard for CHL, separate signage and the costs involved is warranted. This will mitigate concerns of CHL holders that this OC fear will impact their rights.

*The specific location restrictions already noted for CHL will also apply for OC: ie locations that do not require signage to prohibit CHL currently will also apply to OC.
Midway
Intent and reasoning: self explanatory.


I’d support something like this.

[will381796]

*To utilize your rights to OC, a permit is required. To obtain a permit you must be capable of legally purchasing a firearm in Texas (potential thought that any actual OC implement must have been acquired by said person).
Intent and reasoning: This will mitigate the fear that persons who obtained weapons illegally, are mentally defective etc will be walking around with OC.

How would this permitting work? Will those with a permit have some type of badge that they need to display near their weapon? Will we need to wear ID badges showing everyone that we're legally carrying? Otherwise, LOEs will need to stop each and every person that they see open carrying and ask to see their permit/license, which would create an undue burden on LOE and permit holders alike..

I don't see the difference in the "danger" presented by a person carrying openly compared to a person carrying concealed. The outcome of either is the same: an armed citizen. Thus, it makes no sense for there to be any difference in the permitting/licensing requirements for the two should permitting/licensing be required for OC.

[anygunanywhere]

Some people are just stuck on the concept that rights are allowed if permits by governments are issued.

Anygunanywhere

[frazzled]

Some people are just stuck on the concept that rights are allowed if permits by governments are issued.

Anygunanywhere

Wow, way to try to screw someone coming around to your cause. No wonder you guys can't get it going.

I take it back. If this is the position of those supporting it, then you deserve to lose...again.

How would this permitting work? Will those with a permit have some type of badge that they need to display near their weapon? Will we need to wear ID badges showing everyone that we're legally carrying?

Good question! I like the badge idea actually-its very Texas.

[anygunanywhere]

Wow, way to try to screw someone coming around to your cause. No wonder you guys can't get it going.

Why is it that every time there is an attempt to regain a right individuals such as yourself insist that it be licensed? You do understand that there are states where citizens concealed and open carry without a license.

I do not support any form of firearm or carry licensing. None. Zip. Nada. It is a right. No infringement. God given. Even if the 2A was to be repealed I would still have the RKBA!

I take it back. If this is the position of those supporting it, then you deserve to lose...again.

I was not supporting the failed attempt at open carry once I saw how it was being handled.

I didn't lose anything this time around. How can I lose something that was taken away over 100 years ago? The only part that still continues is that the state and feds are still infringing on my rights.

Anygunanywhere

[frazzled]

Why is it that every time there is an attempt to regain a right individuals such as yourself insist that it be licensed? You do understand that there are states where citizens concealed and open carry without a license.

And other states effetcively proihibit firearms. Whats your point?
Texas has 24 million people in it. I could give a fig about any of the other states.

We are Texas.

[anygunanywhere]

And other states effetcively proihibit firearms. Whats your point?
Texas has 24 million people in it. I could give a fig about any of the other states.

We are Texas.

Well, let's see. It seems that pretty much your whole legalize OC argument is based on the fact that all of your OC supporters did give a "fig" about the other states. The whole point of OC is because 44 other states allow it to some degree, some with and some without permits. The other state's laws are the main premise of the OC argument. Let's not let the facts get in the way. That is my point.

Licensed rights are not rights, they are permissions. That is my other point.

Anygunanywhere

[frazzled]

Licensed rights are not rights, they are permissions. That is my other point.

Anygunanywhere

Thats jingoistic nonsense. You have to have a license to march in a parade, to vote etc. etc. Do you not support voting either?

Having a permit stating that "gee yes I am in fact legally able to purchase a firearm" is not a permission. We have open borders here with lots of illegal firearms. Criminals don't have the right bear arms and this affirms they are not a criminal.

[anygunanywhere]

Licensed rights are not rights, they are permissions. That is my other point.

Anygunanywhere

Thats jingoistic nonsense. You have to have a license to march in a parade, to vote etc. etc. Do you not support voting either?

Having a permit stating that "gee yes I am in fact legally able to purchase a firearm" is not a permission. We have open borders here with lots of illegal firearms. Criminals don't have the right bear arms and this affirms they are not a criminal.

The second amendment is the only amendment that emphatically states shall not be infringed. I am truly saddened that you consider my statement as jingoistic nonsense. I do not consider any right in such a manner. You say you are an OC supporter but you insist that the 2A is so easily trampled on?



Anygunanywhere

[DMG]

Hey, guys, let's calm down. You are not going to convince the other of your position, and if you keep battling amongst yourselves you will just lose everyone's interest and/or get this thread closed.

[frazzled]

Hey, guys, let's calm down. You are not going to convince the other of your position, and if you keep battling amongst yourselves you will just lose everyone's interest and/or get this thread closed.

Fair enough

[will381796]

You have to have a license to march in a parade, to vote etc. etc. Do you not support voting either?

What state are you from that requires a license to vote? :-/

[frazzled]

You have to have a license to march in a parade, to vote etc. etc. Do you not support voting either?

What state are you from that requires a license to vote? :-/

Argh another post eaten. To paraphrase

Texas does. You have to register to vote. That and the proposed OC badge, would certify that you have the legal capacity to perform the capacity you propose to do, ie meet the minimum criteria to exercise your constitutional right. A voter registration card certifies you’re legally able to vote in the state of Texas. The proposed OC badge certifies to all that you meet the legal minimum criteria to have a firearm in the state of Texas.

Now if I had my druthers I’d say to have an OC you must be limited to a Colt Peacemaker or similar long barreled revolving hogleg and late 1800s period Spanish style holster rig, with worn hat, three day old beard, and appropriate spaghetti western soundtrack wherever you walk. Because we’re Texas, and that’s how we roll…

[Conagher]

Recent events in Mexico, especially the borders areas, are an extreme cause of concern.
WARNING: the Frazzled has been converted (slightly)
Intent: permit OC with local capacity to restrict, while also keeping OC out of those who cannot legally own guns to begin with. Because CHL is a substantially higher standard, separate signage restricting CHL will still be required. Penalties for not meeting the terms of the OC are meant to be harsh, to keep yayhoos from ruining our rights.

As such, Proposed:

*OC is permitted in the State of Texas. Local jurisdictions are capable, under local ordnance, to limit OC to long guns.
Intent and reasoning: This will enable the good citizens to tailor reasonable limitations to their specific locales. It will help getting metropolitan politicians onside and mitigates their fears of yahoos walking around with 9mm trying to be macho.

*To utilize your rights to OC, a permit is required. To obtain a permit you must be capable of legally purchasing a firearm in Texas (potential thought that any actual OC implement must have been acquired by said person).
Intent and reasoning: This will mitigate the fear that persons who obtained weapons illegally, are mentally defective etc will be walking around with OC.
*Carrying of a weapon without an OC permit, CHL permit, or otherwise permitted under law will result in a CLASS A FELONY.
Intent and reasoning: This provides incentive for those to abide by the requirements of OC and keeps OC out of the hands of nutjobs, criminals intent on mischief, and macho wannabees. I have no issues with Draconian punishment if the law is free, easy to understand, and fair.

*OCs may be restricted by sign (define sign to be substantially less burdensome than 30.06 requirements). Said sign will not impact CHLs which will continue to require the 30.06 sign.
Intent and reasoning: Because there is a higher standard for CHL, separate signage and the costs involved is warranted. This will mitigate concerns of CHL holders that this OC fear will impact their rights.

*The specific location restrictions already noted for CHL will also apply for OC: ie locations that do not require signage to prohibit CHL currently will also apply to OC.
Midway
Intent and reasoning: self explanatory.


I’d support something like this.

frazzled,

Thank you for your post. This is exactly the compromising discussions I believe we need to have in order to align on a resolution we can all live with. So please do not get too frustrated with the discussions; I believe they are necessary and beneficial to many on this forum to help think through this complicated issue. Please think of the replies as opportunities to clarify your thought process and rationale, versus actual challenges to your position. As stated, I believe we can all benefit from these discussions if we can keep them civilized and constructive (not directed specifically at you – but rather to all of us).

With that said, I would like to better understand the concerns bolded above; and to help me understand the concerns better I would like to address this with an analogy if I may. To my understanding of the current state laws for long guns, it would be legal for me or anyone else in the state to: Dress up like Rambo with a black muscle shirt, camo pants, black surplus jungle boots, red scarf around my head, loaded AR-15 on one shoulder, loaded pump shotgun with pistol grip on the other shoulder, carrying a loaded BMG 50 cal rifle, with full ammo bandoliers crossing my chest. I’m guessing most would consider this a macho wannabee, nutjob or worse. However, even though it would be legal, I have not seen anyone running around like this. Since this does not appear to be an issue with long guns, is it reasonable in infer it probably will not be an issue with hand guns? Note that I am not saying it will never happen (the long gun example that is currently legal); I’m just trying to understand if it is a real issue or really just an outlier.

Thanks again for your contributions to this post!

Thanks & Have a Nice Day!

Conagher