Re: Austin Gun Show Troubles?
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:33 am
Williamson Co has a lower tax rate too :)
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Good morning, frazzledfrazzled wrote:OK I'm agreed the hassling is Big Brother and very California.
I too would rather see the shows "where they are wanted" ala Williamson/Round Rock (I do believe Cedar park has a new convention center hint hint)
Question-whats the issue with going through an FFL for a private exchange (other than the fee)? I'm not seeing why thats a big deal-can someone help me out here?
Mmm. Gotcha.CWOOD wrote:Good morning, frazzledfrazzled wrote:OK I'm agreed the hassling is Big Brother and very California.
I too would rather see the shows "where they are wanted" ala Williamson/Round Rock (I do believe Cedar park has a new convention center hint hint)
Question-whats the issue with going through an FFL for a private exchange (other than the fee)? I'm not seeing why thats a big deal-can someone help me out here?
I'll take a stab at it. To me, anyway, the problem is that it is perfectly legal for a law abiding citizen to sell a legal firearm to another law abiding citizen...anywhere in Texas that they have a right to be. They are trying to prevent a lawful transaction. They are saying that because others made an illegal transaction YOU cannot make a legal one. It is the same old story which colors ALL of the gun control advocates' arguements. SOMEONE might do bad and illegal things with a firearm, so let's make the possession of firearms illegal by everyone, law abiding and not.
In this case they have no explicit legal authority to do this so they are bending a public nuisance ordinance to fit a preconceived intent.
As I wrote to APD, I don't want felons or illegal aliens to have access to firearms anymore than they do, so if they find such an occasion of illegal activity, then by all means present that case in court to get severe punishment to all criminals involved, but don't infringe on the legal activities of everyone else...including the operation of a legal private business.
They seem to have a problem with the meaning of 'infringe'.
That is my take anyway.
It is illegal for you to knowingly sell to a felon. Before I sell to anyone, I ask to see a Texas driver's license, and I ask if they are legally able to purchase a firearm in Texas. If they have a problem with me taking down their name and TX DL # then no deal.C-dub wrote:Were the Saxet and Texas Gun shows both held and the same HEB location? If they were then Austin's analogy works. However, if not then I would amend his analogy to be a different hotel entirely where the illegal or questionable activities took place.
For my clarification, is it illegal for me, a private citizen, to sell to a felon or is is it just illegal for the felon to purchase or possess a gun? Never mind all the caveats of which state I'm in or what kind of felony it was and all that. I just mean in general. I wonder since I don't have access to or the ability to do an NICS or background check on someone or apparently the requirement. I can understand that I might be in trouble if I knowingly do this, but if I don't know the person is a felon and I'm not required to check will I still be in trouble?
I don't want to change my whole stance on the current rights to keep, bear and sell arms, but this may be the problem and I hope someone can set me straight on the whole thing. As gun owners we should look down on anyone selling a gun to anyone not allowed to own one, be it a felon, a mental case, or a minor. If I don't ask, I don't know... so is that legal for the seller? To say, "Oh, I didn't know" would get you off scot free??FlynJay wrote:It is illegal for you to knowingly sell to a felon. Before I sell to anyone, I ask to see a Texas driver's license, and I ask if they are legally able to purchase a firearm in Texas. If they have a problem with me taking down their name and TX DL # then no deal.C-dub wrote:Were the Saxet and Texas Gun shows both held and the same HEB location? If they were then Austin's analogy works. However, if not then I would amend his analogy to be a different hotel entirely where the illegal or questionable activities took place.
For my clarification, is it illegal for me, a private citizen, to sell to a felon or is is it just illegal for the felon to purchase or possess a gun? Never mind all the caveats of which state I'm in or what kind of felony it was and all that. I just mean in general. I wonder since I don't have access to or the ability to do an NICS or background check on someone or apparently the requirement. I can understand that I might be in trouble if I knowingly do this, but if I don't know the person is a felon and I'm not required to check will I still be in trouble?
The law doesn't say you must write down my name and DL. Welcome to the business of infringing on our constitutional rights. The problem we have is explained in actions such as this. You have a justification for violating the RKBA just as the Austin PD.FlynJay wrote:It is illegal for you to knowingly sell to a felon. Before I sell to anyone, I ask to see a Texas driver's license, and I ask if they are legally able to purchase a firearm in Texas. If they have a problem with me taking down their name and TX DL # then no deal.C-dub wrote:Were the Saxet and Texas Gun shows both held and the same HEB location? If they were then Austin's analogy works. However, if not then I would amend his analogy to be a different hotel entirely where the illegal or questionable activities took place.
For my clarification, is it illegal for me, a private citizen, to sell to a felon or is is it just illegal for the felon to purchase or possess a gun? Never mind all the caveats of which state I'm in or what kind of felony it was and all that. I just mean in general. I wonder since I don't have access to or the ability to do an NICS or background check on someone or apparently the requirement. I can understand that I might be in trouble if I knowingly do this, but if I don't know the person is a felon and I'm not required to check will I still be in trouble?
Thats not infringing. Its a private transaction. If he, as seller wants the buyer to dance the Babooshka in a pink leotard and the buyer agrees then they can contract to do so.03Lightningrocks wrote:The law doesn't say you must write down my name and DL. Welcome to the business of infringing on our constitutional rights. The problem we have is explained in actions such as this. You have a justification for violating the RKBA just as the Austin PD.FlynJay wrote:It is illegal for you to knowingly sell to a felon. Before I sell to anyone, I ask to see a Texas driver's license, and I ask if they are legally able to purchase a firearm in Texas. If they have a problem with me taking down their name and TX DL # then no deal.C-dub wrote:Were the Saxet and Texas Gun shows both held and the same HEB location? If they were then Austin's analogy works. However, if not then I would amend his analogy to be a different hotel entirely where the illegal or questionable activities took place.
For my clarification, is it illegal for me, a private citizen, to sell to a felon or is is it just illegal for the felon to purchase or possess a gun? Never mind all the caveats of which state I'm in or what kind of felony it was and all that. I just mean in general. I wonder since I don't have access to or the ability to do an NICS or background check on someone or apparently the requirement. I can understand that I might be in trouble if I knowingly do this, but if I don't know the person is a felon and I'm not required to check will I still be in trouble?
No, it doesn't, but I do the same thing. It is the choice of the person selling to ensure that they are comfortable with the transaction. I have asked for CHL before. I choose who I sell to, and if they don't want to show a drivers license or CHL, then that is their choice also and they can move on to buy from someone else.03Lightningrocks wrote: The law doesn't say you must write down my name and DL. Welcome to the business of infringing on our constitutional rights. The problem we have is explained in actions such as this. You have a justification for violating the RKBA just as the Austin PD.
Keith B wrote:No, it doesn't, but I do the same thing. It is the choice of the person selling to ensure that they are comfortable with the transaction. I have asked for CHL before. I choose who I sell to, and if they don't want to show a drivers license or CHL, then that is their choice also and they can move on to buy from someone else.03Lightningrocks wrote: The law doesn't say you must write down my name and DL. Welcome to the business of infringing on our constitutional rights. The problem we have is explained in actions such as this. You have a justification for violating the RKBA just as the Austin PD.
Edit to add: And it is not the same as filling out a government form that is filed away. Also, I will bet the FFL will want a transfer fee.
The key wording that I was referring to was WRITE DOWN. I typically ask to see a DL also. I do not make a written record of that information. Again...I objected to the WRITING DOWN of this information as it IS a violation of our RKBA just as the City of Austin has the right to make the RULES tougher but in doing so, they are in violation of our RKBA. Requiring a CHL is also a violation of our rights...but, what are ya gonna do?Keith B wrote:No, it doesn't, but I do the same thing. It is the choice of the person selling to ensure that they are comfortable with the transaction. I have asked for CHL before. I choose who I sell to, and if they don't want to show a drivers license or CHL, then that is their choice also and they can move on to buy from someone else.03Lightningrocks wrote: The law doesn't say you must write down my name and DL. Welcome to the business of infringing on our constitutional rights. The problem we have is explained in actions such as this. You have a justification for violating the RKBA just as the Austin PD.
Edit to add: And it is not the same as filling out a government form that is filed away. Also, I will bet the FFL will want a transfer fee.
I still disagree. Writing down the information is not the same as filling out a form for the ATF. I keep the information in case there is a question or problem later on where the gun is stolen or possibly used in a crime, I can go back and know who it was sold to. Some people actually use a bill of sale; no different.03Lightningrocks wrote:The key wording that I was referring to was WRITE DOWN. I typically ask to see a DL also. I do not make a written record of that information. Again...I objected to the WRITING DOWN of this information as it IS a violation of our RKBA just as the City of Austin has the right to make the RULES tougher but in doing so, they are in violation of our RKBA. Requiring a CHL is also a violation of our rights...but, what are ya gonna do?Keith B wrote:No, it doesn't, but I do the same thing. It is the choice of the person selling to ensure that they are comfortable with the transaction. I have asked for CHL before. I choose who I sell to, and if they don't want to show a drivers license or CHL, then that is their choice also and they can move on to buy from someone else.03Lightningrocks wrote: The law doesn't say you must write down my name and DL. Welcome to the business of infringing on our constitutional rights. The problem we have is explained in actions such as this. You have a justification for violating the RKBA just as the Austin PD.
Edit to add: And it is not the same as filling out a government form that is filed away. Also, I will bet the FFL will want a transfer fee.