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Alright guys, You know the rules. Drop it or the thread WILL be locked.

marksiwel wrote:I'm speaking of the end of the War. Russia could have beaten Germany without any US help, but they would have been running mainland Europe. As unpopular as these seems, the USA role in WW2 alittle overblown, compared to the almost nonexistent recongization of Russia's influence and help to defeat the Germans. Remember they Captured Berlin not US.

And if you look at a map, you'll see that Berlin is a lot closer to Russia than to the coast of France.

I would just like to take this opportunity and point out to all the mods that I have resisted getting involved in this thread. I would think this deserves some kind of brownie points.

bdickens wrote:

marksiwel wrote:I'm speaking of the end of the War. Russia could have beaten Germany without any US help, but they would have been running mainland Europe. As unpopular as these seems, the USA role in WW2 alittle overblown, compared to the almost nonexistent recongization of Russia's influence and help to defeat the Germans. Remember they Captured Berlin not US.

And if you look at a map, you'll see that Berlin is a lot closer to Russia than to the coast of France.

IF you look at any History book or look up "The Race to Berlin" we were trying to get to Berlin but let the Russians have it for diplomatic reasons (among other things*). It had nothing to do with Geography.

* What other things? well the Russians were willing to throw Wave after Wave of men after the Germans and take Loses, that frankly the Western Allies were not willing/able to take.

But this is not a thread about WW2, this started as a thread about how sick I was of silly politics, people being closed minded, and how Democrats and Republicans are different sides of the same coin.

So where did this change from a CHL thread to WWII? I must have missed the memo.

gigag04 wrote:This thread and "Cuffed and Stuffed" are probably my favorite threads to lurk as of recent. I would gladly see them both locked, but i won't lose any sleep over it.

The entertainment value is too high.

also some of the people here argue more than a married couple and get way too serious way too soon IMO.

XtremeDuty.45 wrote:

gigag04 wrote:This thread and "Cuffed and Stuffed" are probably my favorite threads to lurk as of recent. I would gladly see them both locked, but i won't lose any sleep over it.

The entertainment value is too high.

also some of the people here argue more than a married couple and get way too serious way too soon IMO.

It's politics my man! Folks get crazy over Politics quicker than if you insult their momma's. Heck... I do it too. A conversation about politics is always personal. I thought I would just lurk this one instead of getting involved. It has been kind of interesting... LOL. In a diabolically morbid sort of way.

03Lightningrocks wrote:I would just like to take this opportunity and point out to all the mods that I have resisted getting involved in this thread. I would think this deserves some kind of brownie points.

Yes! A vote has been taken and you are certainly deserving of a big brown one.

A Big Brown Nose for the both of you

Oldgringo wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:I would just like to take this opportunity and point out to all the mods that I have resisted getting involved in this thread. I would think this deserves some kind of brownie points.

Yes! A vote has been taken and you are certainly deserving of a big brown one.

Uhhhhh. Thank You..... I think.

I agree. Dem or Rep, most Americans want freedom and liberty and I think that Dem or Rep, is just a means to divide Americans with boogeymen. I have a liberal friend that seems to think that Bush would outlaw abortions and she had a cow over Bush getting elected president. Well, guess what, after 8 years of Bush, abortions are still legal. Instead of worrying about bogeymen, we should worry about keeping our constitutional rights. Not just the right to bear arms, but the right to free speech (the patriot act and the IRS church rules stifle free speech, if you legally speak out against the government, the IRS will revoke your tax exempt status and charge you crushing back taxes), the right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment (waterboarding and the dozens of Guantanamo-like facilities the US has throughout the world, etc), and all our other rights are being stolen from us at an alarming rate. Solidarity of all decent freedom loving Americans is what we need to defeat the evil statists, socialists, and other jac booted nazis, regardless of party affiliations.

I'm sick of the divide, too.

drjoker wrote:I agree. Dem or Rep, most Americans want freedom and liberty and I think that Dem or Rep, is just a means to divide Americans with boogeymen. I have a liberal friend that seems to think that Bush would outlaw abortions and she had a cow over Bush getting elected president. Well, guess what, after 8 years of Bush, abortions are still legal. Instead of worrying about bogeymen, we should worry about keeping our constitutional rights. Not just the right to bear arms, but the right to free speech (the patriot act and the IRS church rules stifle free speech, if you legally speak out against the government, the IRS will revoke your tax exempt status and charge you crushing back taxes), the right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment (waterboarding and the dozens of Guantanamo-like facilities the US has throughout the world, etc), and all our other rights are being stolen from us at an alarming rate. Solidarity of all decent freedom loving Americans is what we need to defeat the evil statists, socialists, and other jac booted nazis, regardless of party affiliations.

I'm sick of the divide, too.

Abortions are a personal matter that doesn't involve the state; however, liberals having cows is a horse of another color and should be investigated. Special care should also be provided to those who think disarmed houses and a disarmed populace is good for America.

I don't particularly want to be waterboarded; but then again, I don't run around wearing a mask killing innocent people or blowing up buildings, cars, boats, planes and trains, etc. Yes, waterboarding and Gitmo type places are good for America and bad for her enemies. Now, if I was a muslim terrorist or jihadist sympathizer, I could see your point.

In closing, I will respectfully agree: Allahu Akbar

Oldgringo wrote:

drjoker wrote:I agree. Dem or Rep, most Americans want freedom and liberty and I think that Dem or Rep, is just a means to divide Americans with boogeymen. I have a liberal friend that seems to think that Bush would outlaw abortions and she had a cow over Bush getting elected president. Well, guess what, after 8 years of Bush, abortions are still legal. Instead of worrying about bogeymen, we should worry about keeping our constitutional rights. Not just the right to bear arms, but the right to free speech (the patriot act and the IRS church rules stifle free speech, if you legally speak out against the government, the IRS will revoke your tax exempt status and charge you crushing back taxes), the right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment (waterboarding and the dozens of Guantanamo-like facilities the US has throughout the world, etc), and all our other rights are being stolen from us at an alarming rate. Solidarity of all decent freedom loving Americans is what we need to defeat the evil statists, socialists, and other jac booted nazis, regardless of party affiliations.

I'm sick of the divide, too.

Abortions are a personal matter that doesn't involve the state; however, liberals having cows is a horse of another color and should be investigated. Special care should also be provided to those who think disarmed houses and a disarmed populace is good for America.

I don't particularly want to be waterboarded; but then again, I don't run around wearing a mask killing innocent people or blowing up buildings, cars, boats, planes and trains, etc. Yes, waterboarding and Gitmo type places are good for America and bad for her enemies. Now, if I was a muslim terrorist or jihadist sympathizer, I could see your point.

In closing, I will respectfully agree: Allahu Akbar

I can see your point, Oldgringo, but reading drjoker's post I couldn't help thinking of Pastor Neimoller and "First they came for the...". Seems to me that certain tactics, which might be relatively safe for the rest of us if we had decent honourable politicians, become very risky in an age of career politicians. That's because, at base, a career politician is a person who woke up one day, when they were 11 or 12 years old, thought "I know - I'll get to be in charge of everybody" and then set about making that dream come true.

I'm sure there's a medical term for it. I don't know what it is, but I'll bet it ends in "path".

Oldgringo wrote:Now, if I was a muslim terrorist or jihadist sympathizer, I could see your point.

In closing, I will respectfully agree: Allahu Akbar

Actually, I have no reservations about waterboarding foreigners fighting a WAR against the USA. After all, war is nasty business and waterboarding, at least will not kill nor permanently physically harm an individual (usually). It is much more humane than other potential interrogation techniques. They can waterboard all the foreign jihadists that they want. I don't care.

However, they are waterboarding US CITIZENS! THAT is UNCONSTITUTIONAL! I saw an expose on TV in Germany when I was there. Americans cannot be tortured by the American government. So, to skirt that technicality, they do a "special rendition" where they will fly an American citizen from
America to Poland and have the Polish do the dirty work torturing Americans under the supervision of the CIA. My liberal friends are actually really disappointed in Obama because he has dragged his feet on shutting down "Gitmo" and has not brought to justice any Bush era personnel involved with the torture of US citizens. I could not find a link to an online recording of the TV show that I watched in Germany. However, this is an online article about the facility in Poland: http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 50,00.html

I think if we all just agree to disagree on bogeymen issues, ALL decent freedom loving Americans, regardless of political party affiliations, can unite at the polls and defeat the jac booted Nazis at the next elections, and more importantly, before the elections by supporting financially and with labor (if you don't have money) righteous public servants. I mean, the constitution has a provision for us to "get along" on bogeymen issues like abortion. It's called state's rights. If liberal Kalifornians want abortions, fine. Move to Kali. If you don't want it, move to Texas. Every state can decide for themselves if they want abortion or not. We can all agree to disagree and just get along.

In closing, I invite y'all to forget the bogeymen such as gay marriage, abortion, etc, and work together to preserve our rapidly disappearing constitutional rights, regardless of party affiliations! United we stand, divided we fall! For the first time in my life, I've just participated in a non-presidential election year primary. I wanted to make sure that only fiscally conservative Republicans who support the Constitution get nominated. I've also set aside, over my wife's objections, $1000 to donate to worthy political causes. Forget about buying that new gun because if they confiscate it, you won't have it anyways. I invite you to use that money to influence the next election. The NRA is O.K. and I'm a member who donates at least several hundred dollars per year, but they've compromised in the past. My constitutional rights are not up for negotiation nor compromise. I invite you to donate the majority of your hard earned dollars to well-researched individual candidates, regardless of political party affiliations.



P.S. The patriot act is not about terrorism, either. That was just a big fat lie to get Congress and the American people to swallow the poison pill. Basically, they can do whatever they want to whoever they want for whatever PERCEIVED illegalities real or imagined that they have. Here is a toy store owner whose store was shut down for a day because Homeland Security thought that they were selling something too similar to a Rubik's cube: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/oc ... ystore.htm . Again, if it were just about jihadists and crazy foreign terrorists, that's fine. They can shoot 'em, torture 'em, I don't care. But when they lie to us and target US Citizens instead, then that really chaps my hide.

P.P.S. Pastor Neimoller wrote this famous poem about the rise of Nazi persecutions in Germany:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

We must stand up and speak out against any unconstitutional injustice, no matter who it is directed against... or we'll end up just like Nazi Germany.

P.P.S. Pastor Neimoller wrote this famous poem about the rise of Nazi persecutions in Germany:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Was this written before or after the populace was disarmed? That was the second point I apparently failed to make with my sarcastic comment about disarmed houses and populace.

Are the people in the German press who are reporting the waterboarding of Americans descendants of the same German press that denied the death camps and in some instances still deny the Holocaust and other civilian massacres ever happened under their parent's government?

, gentlemen.