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Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:56 am
by speedsix
...if it's proven and the DA wants to , they can be criminally charged...or the PD can discipline them...in this case, it may end up as a Federal deal...
...given what the video DOES show us and what we CAN hear...I see no reason to dispute the lawyer's account of what went on that we CAN'T hear...and neither would a jury...the video is reasonable grounds for dismissing the failure to notify...and the officers!!!
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:30 am
by flintknapper
C-dub wrote:Just watched the entire video. I couldn't defend these two officers even if I wanted to and I don't want to.
However, at about 1:35 when the bigger jerk approaches the car the victim does not attempt to notify him then. When the other officer is inside the car I can't hear what is said and the flashlight is only briefly shined in the victims face. I don't actually hear the victim being interrupted and prevented from telling them he has a concealed carry permit until just before they get him out of the car. Meanwhile, he keeps saying he's never done this before instead of telling them he has a concealed carry permit. He speaks plenty before he is interrupted, but doesn't say what is important.
Just for arguments sake...lets say it was a clear cut case of
failure to notify.
Does that justify the tirade the officer displayed? The threats of physical harm to the alleged prostitute, the threat to "execute" the driver, the abundance of profanity!
I couldn't care less what the
supposed offense was/is....it is the handling of the situation (by BOTH officers) that is unacceptable!
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:45 am
by C-dub
flintknapper wrote:C-dub wrote:Just watched the entire video. I couldn't defend these two officers even if I wanted to and I don't want to.
However, at about 1:35 when the bigger jerk approaches the car the victim does not attempt to notify him then. When the other officer is inside the car I can't hear what is said and the flashlight is only briefly shined in the victims face. I don't actually hear the victim being interrupted and prevented from telling them he has a concealed carry permit until just before they get him out of the car. Meanwhile, he keeps saying he's never done this before instead of telling them he has a concealed carry permit. He speaks plenty before he is interrupted, but doesn't say what is important.
Just for arguments sake...lets say it was a clear cut case of
failure to notify.
Does that justify the tirade the officer displayed? The threats of physical harm to the alleged prostitute, the threat to "execute" the driver, the abundance of profanity!
I couldn't care less what the
supposed offense was/is....it is the handling of the situation (by BOTH officers) that is unacceptable!
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:37 am
by flintknapper
C-dub wrote:flintknapper wrote:C-dub wrote:Just watched the entire video. I couldn't defend these two officers even if I wanted to and I don't want to.
However, at about 1:35 when the bigger jerk approaches the car the victim does not attempt to notify him then. When the other officer is inside the car I can't hear what is said and the flashlight is only briefly shined in the victims face. I don't actually hear the victim being interrupted and prevented from telling them he has a concealed carry permit until just before they get him out of the car. Meanwhile, he keeps saying he's never done this before instead of telling them he has a concealed carry permit. He speaks plenty before he is interrupted, but doesn't say what is important.
Just for arguments sake...lets say it was a clear cut case of
failure to notify.
Does that justify the tirade the officer displayed? The threats of physical harm to the alleged prostitute, the threat to "execute" the driver, the abundance of profanity!
I couldn't care less what the
supposed offense was/is....it is the handling of the situation (by BOTH officers) that is unacceptable!
Yes, I saw that...I am not in any way challenging you. I am just quoting your post (because of its content) to make the larger point: It doesn't matter if the guy notified or not (except what he can be charged with), the PROBLEM was with the Officer's behavior during the stop.
This guy could have just robbed a bank...and it wouldn't warrant the kind of attitude (and threats) he received. There's something seriously wrong with that cop, his partner (and probably the Chief). You can bet your boots...this isn't the first time that officer treated people that way.
He got out his cruiser...having already decided "what was going on...and how he was going to handle it". It smears the reputation of GOOD COPS (whom I have the highest regard for).
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:00 pm
by C-dub
And I agree with you. I also think the guy had opportunity to notify long before the jerk went off on him. No, that doesn't justify what the jerk did.
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:05 pm
by speedsix
...his lawyer said he tried three times...and the audio's not clear enough for us to be sure what was said...I believe him...we may never know 'cause the case'll be thrown out...unless the city attorney refuses to do so because it would be seen as an admission that the cops were all wrong...that won't help 'em in the suit...but if the charge is left in place...it'll give him a bigger hammer to hit them with...we're gonna have to salt our popcorn and wait on this one...the chances of it being settled by the year's end are kinda slim...
...my way of keeping this from happening to me...have the DL and CHL in hand and hold them out the window as the officer first approaches the car...then, even if he ignores them and goes on to talk to someone in the backseat like here...I tried...the second he speaks to me ...hold them out again...the notification does NOT have to be verbal...it says "display" and holding it out to him is surely displaying...I choose to believe, based on the quality of LEO contacts I've had since 84 in Texas, this won't ever happen here...
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:01 pm
by mamabearCali
GRRRR.... just watched fox news story on it, and they were all about the fact that he did not notify and how it was his job to notify. But they did not mention that when he tried to notify the officer he was told to S*** U*. They then went on about how often police officers were killed doing routine stop and how stressful they were for officers. I know that may be true, but that is no where near an excuse for threatening to kill this man. We don't draft police officers here in the US, you had to apply for the job right? If it is too stressful, change professions. I have great respect for those who wear the badge with honor, but great contempt for those who abuse it.
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:23 pm
by sjfcontrol
What amazes me is that the dashboard cam video not only got made, but it didn't get "lost" somewhere along the way.
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:25 pm
by Bullwhip
Texas Dan Mosby wrote:
2) The officer was clearly trying to dominate the situation. If the driver had tried yet a third time to identify, I have no doubt the cop would've yelled at him again to shut up. Subsequent tries weren't going to change anything.
While I won't argue against the manner in which he "dominated" the situation, I will argue that it IS his duty to dominate the situation. Any weakness displayed during a potentially violent encounter could incite actions that may require the use of force or deadly force. "Dominating" a situation can temper the behavior of those who may be "on the edge" of either compliance or resistance. Compliance is safer for all involved.
Making someone freeze up out of fear can also make them "fight or flight". I don't think many could stay as calm as this driver. I know I would be so mad and scared too, I would have to bite my tongue. If I said anything I'd sound like I was making it worse.
"Dominating" like this might be safer sometimes, other times it kicks off a fight. Some people right or wrong think the police are always going to abuse them, coming on like this just convinces them its about to happen.
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:36 pm
by sjfcontrol
How much "dominating" needs to be done once the "perp" is handcuffed and in the back of the cruiser?
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:56 pm
by speedsix
...if the cop rattles when he walks...none...if he's a bullying coward...prolly more...
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:27 pm
by Jumping Frog
speedsix wrote:...his lawyer said he tried three times...and the audio's not clear enough for us to be sure what was said...I believe him...we may never know 'cause the case'll be thrown out...unless the city attorney refuses to do so because it would be seen as an admission that the cops were all wrong..
The city prosecutor even before the video was released had offered to drop the charges if the CHL would agree to not bring civil suit. His lawyer, after conferring with the client, turned that offer down.
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:54 pm
by sjfcontrol
speedsix wrote:...if the cop rattles when he walks...none...if he's a bullying coward...prolly more...
I think you and I have a beer summit in our future. Again, I don't know what your talking about. "...rattles when he walks"? I'll try not to grumble...
( I tried a google search, and found something about a dog that swallowed 18 golf balls)
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:17 pm
by speedsix
pm...
Re: OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:13 pm
by flintknapper
Jumping Frog wrote:speedsix wrote:...his lawyer said he tried three times...and the audio's not clear enough for us to be sure what was said...I believe him...we may never know 'cause the case'll be thrown out...unless the city attorney refuses to do so because it would be seen as an admission that the cops were all wrong..
The city prosecutor even before the video was released had offered to drop the charges if the CHL would agree to not bring civil suit.
His lawyer, after conferring with the client, turned that offer down.
Heck yeah.
I'd wager there are lawyers climbing over one another to take this case if his present lawyer doesn't want to pursue it ALL THE WAY.