TexasCHLforum.com

anygunanywhere wrote:

KaiserB wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:Got warrant??

No??

Leave. You are trespassing.

Anygunanywhere

You may want to read up on the applicable laws since Fire Marshals, Code Enforcement, Game Wardens etc. do not require a warrant to enter your property ...

That may be the law, but that still is in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Remember just because a court says it is right that does not make it so.

Barrycare is also declared legal/constitutional by justice roberts. Do you agree?

If it was my property that is what I would tell them. They would have to press the issue and either cite me or arrest me. If you let your liberty and rights get trampled on and do nothing to defend your position then you cannot complain.

Anygunanywhere

Agreement is irrelevant as Facts are stubborn things...

U.S. Supreme Court
Camara v. Municipal Court, 387 U.S. 523 (1967)
Camara v. Municipal Court of the City and County of San Francisco
No. 92
Argued February 15, 1967
Decided June 5, 1967

But I would imagine in the world of hypotheticals on this forum, the Constitutional decision (Article 2) handed down by the SCOTUS would be irrelevant as it applied to your 4th amendment argument. Unqualified statements of opinion about the law do not in any way change the law.

KaiserB wrote:
Agreement is irrelevant as Facts are stubborn things...

U.S. Supreme Court
Camara v. Municipal Court, 387 U.S. 523 (1967)
Camara v. Municipal Court of the City and County of San Francisco
No. 92
Argued February 15, 1967
Decided June 5, 1967

But I would imagine in the world of hypotheticals on this forum, the Constitutional decision (Article 2) handed down by the SCOTUS would be irrelevant as it applied to your 4th amendment argument. Unqualified statements of opinion about the law do not in any way change the law.

If I am reading this thread correctly there is no code for the fire marshall to enforce. I dare say that the case you cite is not applicable because in the decision the appellant was in a jurisdiction that had authority over his residence.

This is a case of a nut job neighbor who thinks he can lord his wishes and influence with the good ol boy county agencies over his neighbor.

If the OP has broken the law then the marshall should put up or shut up.

Maybe the marshall should get the local SWAT team to bust in on the place just to prove his point since there is no law to enforce. Or maybe he can get some fed gov agency to do his dirty work.

Get a warrant.

Anygunanywhere

We have land in Montgomery County and we see the snob element buying up land out here all the time. It's amazing what they will do to try and influence their neighbors. We had a poor family with a run down looking house and one guy paid to have it cleaned up so when his friends drove by it they wouldn't have to look at a trashed house. Lots call the cops for anything they can think of. Many say the poor black folks are dealing drugs just because they are poor. It makes you lose a little faith in humanity. It also gets me when I meet some of them and they speak about being conservative and that they moved to the country to keep the goverment out of their business and that they were so sick of Houaton. Then they want to turn Dobbin TX into a ranch resort community and buy up to tear down all the poor homes. If you are in the area and a guy buys up property around you just to have make sure you pay your taxes. Many will buy up land around them for cheap if the owner can not keep up with their new higher taxes.

Having said that we have had some legitimate bad neighbors out there. We sold off 200 acres that ajoined a trailer park full of all kinds of weirdos. One lady used to dance around in her front yard with no music playing. Another guy like to see fire trucks go vroom so he sat one of our fields on fire and almost burnt up a tractor. We've had problems with calfs getting shot by poachers at night too. They get all drunk and see a light slinned calf and think it's a deer I guess.

Now they are talking about building a lake and our property would be smack in the middle of it. We'd lose some property but most would become lake front. I say bring it. My Dad said he can buy land in South East OK for a quarter of what our place would sale for now. If the lake thing happened who knows how much it would be worth. He likes it there because they have income tax so property taxes are low. Right now he will have to shell out a lot of money after he retires in property taxes every year. Not so there. The land across the FM road from us is listed at $20k an acre so I guess we could ask $12k per for ours and give everyone a steal.

Country ain't country no more. Do the gate thing. Even if it's a piece of rope tied around some trees. It still serves as an indocation that it is private property and you dont wish anyone to pass that point. If you know the boundries you can paint a vertical purple stripe on trees around your property line. I remeber reading that is the same as a no tresspassing sign when I was in the police academy.

As for fire marshalls and game wardens. They may have a little more lienency but they still need probable cause. It seems that simply stating that you are not a business would eliminate any PC the fire marshall has.

If your neighbor just won't be reasoned with you may have to go play hardball with him. Tell him that you can either persue your firearms hobby every so often, or you can start to delve into your facination with train horns.

Haha I like the train horn idea!

There is another neighbor closer to us, same property line, they are great. So I don't want to bother them. But I think my train horn hobby might kick off. Haha

Update:
So I found somebody that actually knows the Fires Marshal. Through him I was able to get a little better incite into where the fire marshal is coming from. He said that the cops said that they heard rounds by the guys property. And that the fire marshal is stating a law that states to the affect: He said anyone no matter the size of the property is not supposed to have "the public" shooting on their place. It states that a MAN may do what he wants on HIS land which inlcudes his children or parents, but anyone outside that relationship is considered the public in the federal govts eyes. The friend said the Marshal was citing a federal law.

So, does anybody have an idea where he is getting the law that states that? I can not believe that I can not have friends on my own property.

Further in the conversation, the friend made it sound like they, the county, was tired of all the calls and think they can squash us. He also mentioned that were didnt think we should have had a .50 out there shooting either.

Now, in regards to the round they say they heard. I know that others in the neighborhood were shooting at the same time that we were when the cops were at the neighbors. I have this same friend coming over to look at the berm and see what he thinks of it, in terms of safety. From the pics I posted, I do not see how this is possible.

With the .50, sounds like they dont think civilians should be able to posses such firearms... The guy that brought it was just needing to shoot 9rds down range to break it in. We were maybe 30yrds from the berm when we shot it. I have a video of me shooting it.


Charles Cotten, do you know of the law that the Fire Marshal is citing?

This "Fire Marshall" must not be using his SCBA in the smoke he encounters, especially the smoke he's blowing up..... where it doesn't belong. Federal law doesn't control who a property owner allows to shoot on their property. Hunters shoot on property they don't own with permission every day, with or with out the owner present. Familiarize the fire marshal with the term Official Oppression if he tries to take you to jail or cite you. He can't make up laws and use his authority to try to enforce them. I would keep third parties out of this, though I understand his wanting to help. A face to face with the fire marshal is needed to let him know you know your rights. Same thing with LEO's. and on other thing GET A LAWYER!

TeXJ wrote:So, does anybody have an idea where he is getting the law that states that?

Alimentary, my dear Watson.

TeXJ wrote: So, does anybody have an idea where he is getting the law that states that?

Nope, nor likely does the Fire Marshal.

The ball is still in his court.

1: Do you know how many people involved in a conversation must be aware of or informed the conversation is being recorded?
2: Polite, discussion with the Fire Marshal, at a place of his choosing and time convenient. "Sir, thank you for your concern. As a law abiding citizen of the state of Texas, I too am concerned.. I very much wish to conduct myself and our family entertainment in a lawful manner. It would help if you would provide a cite for the Federal and or state law you have said we are in violation of?. I'm sure your correct, but we need to fully review the law itself, to ensure we conduct ourselves with in it. Thank you for your time...."








At the end of the conversation you will have a cite, or blabbering made to sound official, but meaning nothing.
3: Thank him again for his time... SHUT UP, no discussion, no arguing... just put your self in receive mode.
4: Go home and research the law he has cited (contact a lawyer),, or realize he has nothing,, and contact a lawyer to write a letter to the Fire marshal and the city / state attorney with your concerns.

E.Marquez wrote:

TeXJ wrote: So, does anybody have an idea where he is getting the law that states that?

Nope, nor likely does the Fire Marshal.

The ball is still in his court.

1: Do you know how many people involved in a conversation must be aware of or informed the conversation is being recorded?
2: Polite, discussion with the Fire Marshal, at a place of his choosing and time convenient. "Sir, thank you for your concern. As a law abiding citizen of the state of Texas, I too am concerned.. I very much wish to conduct myself and our family entertainment in a lawful manner. It would help if you would provide a cite for the Federal and or state law you have said we are in violation of?. I'm sure your correct, but we need to fully review the law itself, to ensure we conduct ourselves with in it. Thank you for your time...."








At the end of the conversation you will have a cite, or blabbering made to sound official, but meaning nothing.
3: Thank him again for his time... SHUT UP, no discussion, no arguing... just put your self in receive mode.
4: Go home and research the law he has cited (contact a lawyer),, or realize he has nothing,, and contact a lawyer to write a letter to the Fire marshal and the city / state attorney with your concerns.

Yeah I'm trying to get a time that I can meet him. I work during the day, so not sure if he would even meet me on the weekends. Answer to question #1, just one.

TeXJ wrote:So, does anybody have an idea where he is getting the law that states that?

I was the 3rd reply to this thread. It is still your answer:

Jumping Frog wrote:Ask him to cite the statute or regulation he believes applies.

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've seen people protest that something pertaining to firearms was forbidden because "it's against the law!" However, when pressed to cite the applicable statute or regulation, you get the gaping fish-mouth syndrome.

I totally agree with E.Marquez that you should have a voice recorder with you and record the conversation. They are $20 at Target or Walmart. In fact, I believe every law enforcement interaction should be recorded, period, and I should have mentioned that in my original reply.

Just talk to a lawyer, make sure you are legal. If it comes to money you can not afford, ask there are many generous people in the pro-gun world and many gun boards on the web.

suthdj wrote:Just talk to a lawyer, make sure you are legal. If it comes to money you can not afford, ask there are many generous people in the pro-gun world and many gun boards on the web.

But even before he talks to the lawyer, he needs to know what the statute or regulation the fire marshall is alleging applies.

TeXJ wrote:This is it almost done: (I'm 5'10" so the berm is about 11ft high here)
[ Image ]

This is how we were shooting. Notice not everybody is shooting, we were taking turns.

Two things.

First, realize that you are potentially liable for every bullet that goes downrange. If someone shoots into the ground and ricochets over the backstop, or has muzzle climb send it over the backstop, then that bullet carries liability. I hope you are giving everyone safety reminders before they shoot and you have someone acting as an RSO watching everyone as they shoot. In my opinion, your backstop is about half the height you really need.

Second, check the orientation of your shooting bay and make sure it isn't aimed at anything like a residence. I was a member of a shooting range with a 300 yard rifle range and (4) 50 yard pistol bays that just happened to be oriented towards a business facility owned by a pretty major corporation. When bullet marks started appearing on the buildings and spent bullets recovered on the roof, that business sued the range. It won a restraining order stopping all shooting until the lawsuit was settled. Two years and many thousands of dollars later the parties reached settlement by the corporation purchasing the property, but no-one ever shot there again.

This was the range I belonged to and the business that sued it:

Jumping Frog wrote:

TeXJ wrote:This is it almost done: (I'm 5'10" so the berm is about 11ft high here)
[ Image ]

This is how we were shooting. Notice not everybody is shooting, we were taking turns.

[ Image ]
Two things.

First, realize that you are potentially liable for every bullet that goes downrange. If someone shoots into the ground and ricochets over the backstop, or has muzzle climb send it over the backstop, then that bullet carries liability. I hope you are giving everyone safety reminders before they shoot and you have someone acting as an RSO watching everyone as they shoot. In my opinion, your backstop is about half the height you really need.

Second, check the orientation of your shooting bay and make sure it isn't aimed at anything like a residence. I was a member of a shooting range with a 300 yard rifle range and (4) 50 yard pistol bays that just happened to be oriented towards a business facility owned by a pretty major corporation. When bullet marks started appearing on the buildings and spent bullets recovered on the roof, that business sued the range. It won a restraining order stopping all shooting until the lawsuit was settled. Two years and many thousands of dollars later the parties reached settlement by the corporation purchasing the property, but no-one ever shot there again.

This was the range I belonged to and the business that sued it:
[ Image ]

And that's why I want to buy a plot of land that's very long, and probably pie-shaped... because I want to shoot skeet with a .22LR, and there's some lateral movement in there too.