e-mail from student about road raging motorcyclist

[baldeagle]

There's a difference between being in a car and having protection vs 2 wheels and no protection. Silly non-motorcycle-riders will never understand, and continue to think that they are the center of the earth, and that the road belongs to them.

Good Lord, man, give it up. You ride a bike. People don't see you. You should take that into account when you're riding and drive accordingly rather than wasting your energy being angry at the drivers. When I rode a bike, my wife said she was surprised at how hard it was to see me ahead of her, and she worried that other drivers wouldn't notice at all. It has nothing to do with being the center of the earth and the road belonging to them. It has to do with inattentiveness and lack of awareness. Humans are flawed. The sooner you realize that and adjust your life to that awareness the sooner your blood pressure will go down and you'll be able to enjoy riding your bike again.

I've also driven a semi. If I saw someone hundreds of yards down the rode coming down their driveway or merging with traffic, I would immediately take my foot of the accelerator and start slowing down. I would move to the left lane if there was one. Why? Because I didn't want to kill them if they pulled out in front of me. Plenty of people have no concept of how many feet a fully loaded semi needs to stop safely without jackknifing. You need at least the length of a football field. So, as a professional driver, it's your responsibility to account for that when other drivers do stupid things.

There was an accident on I-20 a few years back that killed about 17 Mexicans, adults and children. They were traveling in a full size van. It was so overloaded that the tires were scraping the inner fender wells. They were driving on the shoulder at about 20 mph when they approached a bridge. In order to cross the bridge they had to move partially back in to the right lane. When they did that a refrigerated truck rear ended them. By the time the truck stopped its grill was touching the back of the driver's seat. Everyone aft of there was dead.

There's a reason that you see semis move to the left lane when approaching a vehicle on the shoulder. If they're professionals, they know that if that vehicle pulls out, there is no way they could stop in time. So whose fault was the wreck? The van driver shouldn't have pulled out with a truck approaching. But that truck driver should have been in the left lane.

You're just as dead when you're right as you are when you're wrong.

The ONLY thing in life you can control is your own actions. The sooner you learn that the better off you'll be. Either that or get off the bike now, before you kill yourself or somebody else.

[jmra]

It's funny, I never have a problem seeing the guys riding the cruisers going the speed limit. But is it my fault that I don't see the guy on the sports bike doing 120+ splitting lanes and cutting off cars until after I hear the shrill sound of his engine passing within inches of the side of my truck even though I'm in my lane?
2 things:
1. I rode cruisers all over the south. Never had an issue with other drivers and never laid a bike down.
2. I've never met a sports bike owner that didn't brag about how fast he could get from one point to another.

[nyj]

There's a difference between being in a car and having protection vs 2 wheels and no protection. Silly non-motorcycle-riders will never understand, and continue to think that they are the center of the earth, and that the road belongs to them.

Good Lord, man, give it up. You ride a bike. People don't see you. You should take that into account when you're riding and drive accordingly rather than wasting your energy being angry at the drivers. When I rode a bike, my wife said she was surprised at how hard it was to see me ahead of her, and she worried that other drivers wouldn't notice at all. It has nothing to do with being the center of the earth and the road belonging to them. It has to do with inattentiveness and lack of awareness. Humans are flawed. The sooner you realize that and adjust your life to that awareness the sooner your blood pressure will go down and you'll be able to enjoy riding your bike again.

I've also driven a semi. If I saw someone hundreds of yards down the rode coming down their driveway or merging with traffic, I would immediately take my foot of the accelerator and start slowing down. I would move to the left lane if there was one. Why? Because I didn't want to kill them if they pulled out in front of me. Plenty of people have no concept of how many feet a fully loaded semi needs to stop safely without jackknifing. You need at least the length of a football field. So, as a professional driver, it's your responsibility to account for that when other drivers do stupid things.

There was an accident on I-20 a few years back that killed about 17 Mexicans, adults and children. They were traveling in a full size van. It was so overloaded that the tires were scraping the inner fender wells. They were driving on the shoulder at about 20 mph when they approached a bridge. In order to cross the bridge they had to move partially back in to the right lane. When they did that a refrigerated truck rear ended them. By the time the truck stopped its grill was touching the back of the driver's seat. Everyone aft of there was dead.

There's a reason that you see semis move to the left lane when approaching a vehicle on the shoulder. If they're professionals, they know that if that vehicle pulls out, there is no way they could stop in time. So whose fault was the wreck? The van driver shouldn't have pulled out with a truck approaching. But that truck driver should have been in the left lane.

You're just as dead when you're right as you are when you're wrong.

The ONLY thing in life you can control is your own actions. The sooner you learn that the better off you'll be. Either that or get off the bike now, before you kill yourself or somebody else.

What the heck are you rambling on about?

[gemini]

Rider vs Non-Rider. Sport bikes, wheelies, Lexus', illegal modifications, vans with 17 Mexicans, semi trucks,
lane splitting etc etc. Interesting what direction an OP takes.....
A rider usually is using both hands and both feet to physically control his bike. His head is on
a swivel... watching the road in front, watching surrounding traffic in order to be able to
respond to threats and take evasive action if required. He MUST pay attention to his surroundings
and be ready to react. Driving like he's invisible to others on the road (no, they don't see him).
The rider does not have the luxury of eating a burrito, drinking a cup of coffee, texting etc.
In city traffic. He must concentrate on maintaining control.
Where as the driver of a car has many distractions to chose from, and the rider is the one that
has to pay for the drivers lack of attention, skill, or lack of basic traffic courtesy.
I won't defend sport bikes, cruisers, Mopeds, Vespa's or touring bikes driving crazy or stunting;
they are the exception, not the rule.
What I see mostly during weekdays, are folks using all kinds of bikes as transportation to and
from work. An economical form of transport and easy parking.

I think since 1979 or so, ALL bikes are required to have headlights working
as soon as the bike is turned on. Day or night. Safety feature for visibility.

Please, for ALL motorcycles, scooters, 2 wheelers: Share the road.
1. Look twice before turning left or entering traffic.
2. Check your mirrors before changing lanes, or, do a safety
check by actually turning your head and looking.
3. Do not "tailgate". Most bikes require less distance to stop than even the smallest car.

I stand with my original response: Driver did something stupid, whether intentional or not.
Rider was over the top in his response. And, as anothers post pointed out, BOTH driver and
rider probably worked some to escalate the situation.

[jmra]

When it comes to sport bikes, speeding is not the exception. These bikes are built for one thing, speed. I don't care who you are, you get on a sport bike and you are going to drive faster than most everything else on the road.
the only time in my life that I have passed a functional sport bike on a highway/interstate is when the rider slows down to preform some kind of stunt.

[E.Marquez]

When it comes to sport bikes, speeding is not the exception. These bikes are built for one thing, speed. I don't care who you are, you get on a sport bike and you are going to drive faster than most everything else on the road.
the only time in my life that I have passed a functional sport bike on a highway/interstate is when the rider slows down to preform some kind of stunt.

Change a few words in this post.. and it will read just like something from the Brady Bunch and those evil guns.

Car drivers do not "see" motorcycles, they do not register. This is really not in dispute...do a simple search and confirm for yourself if you need to.https://www.google.com/search?q=typical ... e&ie=UTF-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reference the OP... regardless of how it started (and yes i too bet odds are, the car driver did something stupid and endangered the motorcycle rider) Once the active threat was over (car moved away) the motorcycle rider should have taken an approach other than the one reported... As noted the car driver was within legal rights to what they did.
Though they too might have just kept driving and found a safer place to pull over and diffuse while calling 911 ( at a cop shop, or next to a cruiser that is in a parking lot, ect)

[anygunanywhere]

If the person that is cut off is riding a bike or driving a car does not matter, it is rude and really pisses people off. THAT does not give anyone the excuse to chase someone down and assault the car or try to force entry. We can bicker back and forth about it all day, bottom-line people are rude & stupid which brings out the rude & stupid in other people, you can only control yourself.

Unless you ride, you will never understand the frustration of having your life inches from being taken because some dummy was texting on their cell phone.

I have ridden motorcycles.

The only reason I do not is because of stupid people and I do not want any more metal in my frame. I have it at two corners already and none of it is from motorcycles.

I have been rear ended 7 times in my F250 Super Duty. I am not about to ride a motorcycle.

MY choice. MY decision. I am assaulted by ignorant stupid people every day INCLUDING bikers.

Once when two lame brained idiots were doing wheelstands in front of me and Mrs. Anygun on I-45 Gulf Fwy one day she cautioned me to be careful.

"Why should I be careful?" says I.

"They might fall and you will run over them!" says she.

"So what? That is their problem, not mine. The only thing I will feel is the impact. Insurance will pay for the damage. Actions have consequences."

I do watch out for motorcycles for the very reason I do not want to hurt anyone. You do not own any more of the road than I do, you made the decision to ride the bike. Deal with the idiots or drive a cage.

There is no excuse for road rage or assault.

I put up with the texters everyday just like you.

Anygunanywhere

[RPBrown]

If the person that is cut off is riding a bike or driving a car does not matter, it is rude and really pisses people off. THAT does not give anyone the excuse to chase someone down and assault the car or try to force entry. We can bicker back and forth about it all day, bottom-line people are rude & stupid which brings out the rude & stupid in other people, you can only control yourself.

Unless you ride, you will never understand the frustration of having your life inches from being taken because some dummy was texting on their cell phone.

I have ridden motorcycles.

The only reason I do not is because of stupid people and I do not want any more metal in my frame. I have it at two corners already and none of it is from motorcycles.

I have been rear ended 7 times in my F250 Super Duty. I am not about to ride a motorcycle.

MY choice. MY decision. I am assaulted by ignorant stupid people every day INCLUDING bikers.

Once when two lame brained idiots were doing wheelstands in front of me and Mrs. Anygun on I-45 Gulf Fwy one day she cautioned me to be careful.

"Why should I be careful?" says I.

"They might fall and you will run over them!" says she.

"So what? That is their problem, not mine. The only thing I will feel is the impact. Insurance will pay for the damage. Actions have consequences."

I do watch out for motorcycles for the very reason I do not want to hurt anyone. You do not own any more of the road than I do, you made the decision to ride the bike. Deal with the idiots or drive a cage.

There is no excuse for road rage or assault.

I put up with the texters everyday just like you.

Anygunanywhere

I, as a rider, agree. Although I do get upset at the peole not paying attention, I get just as upset at the riders that do stupid stunts or go 120 mph while lane splitting. Upset, yes. Go off on someone, NO. Like AG said above, there is no excuse for road rage. I am sure that I have done something stupid that upset someone else (not that I remember though ). The fact is, evryone is going to make a mistake on the road at one time or another. If it doesnt harm or kill you or someone else, get over it. It happens.

[Purplehood]

There's a difference between being in a car and having protection vs 2 wheels and no protection. Silly non-motorcycle-riders will never understand, and continue to think that they are the center of the earth, and that the road belongs to them.

Good Lord, man, give it up. You ride a bike. People don't see you. You should take that into account when you're riding and drive accordingly rather than wasting your energy being angry at the drivers. When I rode a bike, my wife said she was surprised at how hard it was to see me ahead of her, and she worried that other drivers wouldn't notice at all. It has nothing to do with being the center of the earth and the road belonging to them. It has to do with inattentiveness and lack of awareness. Humans are flawed. The sooner you realize that and adjust your life to that awareness the sooner your blood pressure will go down and you'll be able to enjoy riding your bike again.

I've also driven a semi. If I saw someone hundreds of yards down the rode coming down their driveway or merging with traffic, I would immediately take my foot of the accelerator and start slowing down. I would move to the left lane if there was one. Why? Because I didn't want to kill them if they pulled out in front of me. Plenty of people have no concept of how many feet a fully loaded semi needs to stop safely without jackknifing. You need at least the length of a football field. So, as a professional driver, it's your responsibility to account for that when other drivers do stupid things.

There was an accident on I-20 a few years back that killed about 17 Mexicans, adults and children. They were traveling in a full size van. It was so overloaded that the tires were scraping the inner fender wells. They were driving on the shoulder at about 20 mph when they approached a bridge. In order to cross the bridge they had to move partially back in to the right lane. When they did that a refrigerated truck rear ended them. By the time the truck stopped its grill was touching the back of the driver's seat. Everyone aft of there was dead.

There's a reason that you see semis move to the left lane when approaching a vehicle on the shoulder. If they're professionals, they know that if that vehicle pulls out, there is no way they could stop in time. So whose fault was the wreck? The van driver shouldn't have pulled out with a truck approaching. But that truck driver should have been in the left lane.

You're just as dead when you're right as you are when you're wrong.

The ONLY thing in life you can control is your own actions. The sooner you learn that the better off you'll be. Either that or get off the bike now, before you kill yourself or somebody else.

What the heck are you rambling on about?

I have to agree with Bald Eagle. I have ridden for almost 40 years... Enduros, Crotch-rockets and Cruisers. Road-rage is road-rage regardless if you are in a car, bike or other vehicle. I don't see any need to characterize the OP's post as a 'Bikers vs. stupid-drivers' tirade.

[jmra]

When it comes to sport bikes, speeding is not the exception. These bikes are built for one thing, speed. I don't care who you are, you get on a sport bike and you are going to drive faster than most everything else on the road.
the only time in my life that I have passed a functional sport bike on a highway/interstate is when the rider slows down to preform some kind of stunt.

Change a few words in this post.. and it will read just like something from the Brady Bunch and those evil guns.

Big difference. Sport bikes are not used for self defense and they are not constitutionally protected. I think the comparison is a huge reach. IMHO of course.
"Change a few words" in any statement and you can get the same result. Best thing to do is not change people's words.

[Keith B]

As a former rider and LEO, I will tell you that people don't mentally interpret a motorcycle coming the same as they do a car when they look to pull out. Size, speed, etc all play a factor. The best safety item that they put on bikes years ago was the headlight automatically coming on. Still, people just don;t look for bikes.

I worked several accidents involving motorcycles and cars. There was one accident where I asked the driver of the car (an older gentleman) if he had seen anything coming. His statement was 'All I saw was a motorcycle'.

I had several close calls myself while riding (late '70's, early '80's). The thing that got me to sell my bike and not ride any longer was the accident we worked where a guy came out of a bar and rode up the wrong side of a 4-lane undivided highway head-on into a car. We literally picked up parts of him off of the highway. He had a BAC of .16. I sold my bike 2 days later just because I didn't want to have that happen to me even if it wasn't my fault.

Bottom line, in this case, I can understand the bike rider being upset, but that doesn't make it right to rage on someone. The rider was wrong to start it, no matter what happened after that. Bikers must be extra vigilant and ride like everyone is out to get them. You have way less protection and when you tangle with a car, you are gonna lose.

[E.Marquez]

When it comes to sport bikes, speeding is not the exception. These bikes are built for one thing, speed. I don't care who you are, you get on a sport bike and you are going to drive faster than most everything else on the road.
the only time in my life that I have passed a functional sport bike on a highway/interstate is when the rider slows down to preform some kind of stunt.

Change a few words in this post.. and it will read just like something from the Brady Bunch and those evil guns.

Big difference. Sport bikes are not used for self defense and they are not constitutionally protected. I think the comparison is a huge reach. IMHO of course.
"Change a few words" in any statement and you can get the same result. Best thing to do is not change people's words.

I was speaking to the implied attitude of the poster (you) .. ....blaming the item, not the user.

I ride a sport bike, I ride with other sportbike riders, I have since 1983. I and those I RIDE WITH do not do wheels down the freeway or block traffic so my stunta partners can play, or other such stupidity and in the last 5 years living in Texas I've not seen a single rider do any of that....at all.. Yet some claim it's a daily occurrence.. I assume neither of us is being dishonest so I also assume it's a location thing.

I do see daily,, motorcycles not being seen by car drivers... I do see almost daily car drivers focused on a coffee cup and / or a cell phone merge into a biker, or otherwise run them off a line they were following.

My wife riding to work was run out of lane yesterday by a clueless driver.

I had a left turning car cut in front of me yesterday forcing me to swerve into the turn lane to avoid a wreck. Three days ago as i waited at a stoplight in a 40mph city two lane street.. had a car approach at 40 or so from behind Cars stacked up four or so deep in the left lane,, me alone in the right lane...red light.. Light turned green, and the car coming up behind me only saw green light.. not the bright red motorcycle in the middle of the lane.. at about 20 feet behind me, he locked up his brakes .... I was already getting out of the way moving forward and to the right as fast as I could launch my bike.. he slid past me at about 20 mph tires smoking.... SHOUTING AT ME.... I assume he thought I pulled in front of him .. but of course that was not true..... The state trooper sitting at the gas station agreed with my assessment....and cited the driver... for what I don't know... trooper would not tell me... But a ticket.. for narrowly missing out on killing or maiming a biker .......a ticket...

Spend a few minutes researching all the drivers who kill or maim bikers and get off with a very light or NO charges... it is the norm.

Thats my experience with car drivers the last few days... in that same time frame not a single motor cycle was observed "preform some kind of stunt" or "doing wheelstands" or "lane splitting" or talking / texting on a cell phone while drinking a cup of coffee and driving a 3000 lb vehicle

[92f-fan]

Road Rage is failure to keep ones emotions in control.
Any accident is at some level failure to keep ones self or vehicle in control.

The left turn statistic is not only cars vs bikes - its also cars vs cars and cars vs pedestrians.

PEDESTRIAN ACCIDENTS WITH LEFT-TURNING TRAFFIC
Approximately one out of five accidents at signalized intersections involve a turning vehicle
hitting a pedestrian (2). The split between left-turning and right-turning accidents is about
60/40 (2,3). Furthermore, the proportion of accidents involving pedestrians and left-turning
vehicles varies from 17 to 32 percent of all pedestrian accidents at the intersection (see
Table 1). Thus, left-turning movements at signalized intersections represent a
considerable safety problem to pedestrians

In 2007, for example, the Federal Highway Administration reported there were 2.4 million crashes at intersections, representing 40 percent of all crashes, and one-fifth of all fatal crashes. Most intersection crashes fall under the category of "crossing paths," and the most common path-crossing crashes, according to federal statistics, involve left turns.

NY City study : Pedestrians would be well advised to favor sidewalks to the right of moving traffic — left-hand turns were three times as likely to cause a deadly crash as right-hand turns —

Left turns are just bad in general. For everyone.

But its politically correct to blame the other guy especially when he is not like you ...
You walk and he drives or you ride and he drives. Its always 100% the drivers fault. I got it...

[E.Marquez]

But its politically correct to blame the other guy especially when he is not like you ...
You walk and he drives or you ride and he drives. Its always 100% the drivers fault. I got it...

NO one in THIS thread said that but YOU. So.. please, if you want take such a position that's fine, but own it.. Do not put words in other people's mouths.

The TOPIC....was about a Road rage incident,, and from what was posted, it was uncalled for IMHO.. (you'll notice that statement goes against your statements above.. )

The TOPIC was about a CHL'ers reaction to the unjustified attack, or aggressor.. ... Which also has been shown here to be a justified reaction, allowable by law.
Also described here are better ways for the biker to have handled it, and better ways for the driver to have handled it.

And with that I bid all a good day..... Im going to go ride my bike now.. chances are,, I will have to avoid a rude or dangerous driver in the next few hours....

[brainman]

I avoid people doing stupid stuff every time I ride. It takes a lot of self control to not break some of these people's mirrors off. I will say that if you ever do something out of complete disregard as a driver that puts me in danger of my life, you better own up to the consequences and keep your gun out of it.

I'm really curious what said consequences are.