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But this goes back to situational awareness. If you run around with headphones on while carrying and someone makes an stupid but innocent move and grabs your arm or some other method of stopping you, you need to be sure of what you are drawing your gun on.

Well my wife is partially deaf. She woudln't need headphones to be in this situation.

I will say it again, initial reaction of being startled and pulling away to assess the situation is totally appropriate.

Agreed. I'm just noting grabbing someone from behind is a good way to get shot, or getting a foot in the old baby maker, which may in fact be worse.

Her post reaction, her whining and crying fit and refusing to ID after knowing it was a police officer was not.

We are in complete agreement. Of course, we don't cry in our family, unless someone drops some of the wife's home baked cake. Then there's lots of crying (and joy on the part of the dogs).

mamabearCali wrote: Have you ever been around a girl that just experienced fight or flight? Let me tell you once in college my car broke down. I was in a bad part of town and was chased by three men throwing things at me. I ran like hades and got to a safe place. Once I had got away all I could do was sob. I could barely get out my cell phone to call for help. Her reaction was entirely normal. The swearing was superfluous but kids today swear.

She was not being chased by three men throwing things at her, she was grabbed by the arm by a LEO in broad daylight. Totally different. While she would have initially been startled, once it was realized it was a police officer, then the fear would have subsided. She threw a fit like a spoiled brat and that is it, plain and simple.

Keith B wrote:

mamabearCali wrote: Have you ever been around a girl that just experienced fight or flight? Let me tell you once in college my car broke down. I was in a bad part of town and was chased by three men throwing things at me. I ran like hades and got to a safe place. Once I had got away all I could do was sob. I could barely get out my cell phone to call for help. Her reaction was entirely normal. The swearing was superfluous but kids today swear.

She was not being chased by three men throwing things at her, she was grabbed by the arm by a LEO in broad daylight. Totally different. While she would have initially been startled, once it was realized it was a police officer, then the fear would have subsided. She threw a fit like a spoiled brat and that is it, plain and simple.

No the fear does not subside and the after effects vary from individual to individual. You cannot tell a person how they should feel after being grabbed from behind. That is like the doctor saying it does not hurt when putting in stitches without lidocaine. It does hurt. She was afraid. The LEO's did not have to escalate things. Aren't they supposed to be trained in critical thinking?

mamabearCali wrote:

Keith B wrote:

mamabearCali wrote: Have you ever been around a girl that just experienced fight or flight? Let me tell you once in college my car broke down. I was in a bad part of town and was chased by three men throwing things at me. I ran like hades and got to a safe place. Once I had got away all I could do was sob. I could barely get out my cell phone to call for help. Her reaction was entirely normal. The swearing was superfluous but kids today swear.

She was not being chased by three men throwing things at her, she was grabbed by the arm by a LEO in broad daylight. Totally different. While she would have initially been startled, once it was realized it was a police officer, then the fear would have subsided. She threw a fit like a spoiled brat and that is it, plain and simple.

No the fear does not subside and the after effects vary from individual to individual. You cannot tell a person how they should feel after being grabbed from behind. That is like the doctor saying it does not hurt when putting in stitches without lidocaine. It does hurt. She was afraid. The LEO's did not have to escalate things. Aren't they supposed to be trained in critical thinking?

I see you have formed an opionion on this, as have I, and they do not match. Neither of us know for sure what her adrenaline level was after being stopped, but being startled and even the fear should not cause this woman to be cussing the LEO's and refusing to cooperate. That was NOT driven by anything but being spoiled.

I am done with this one.

I'm still stunned at the idea of pulling a gun on a cop in uniform trying to give you a ticket.

Wow. Just...Wow!

Tic Tac wrote:I'm still stunned at the idea of pulling a gun on a cop in uniform trying to give you a ticket.

Wow. Just...Wow!

I think you're actually referring to the idea of someone who is committing battery on you from behind and could be considered attempting to harm you or kidnap you.

Assuming you can turn around and its a police officer is one thing, but a reactive person like we talk people should be will have already reacted to escape the situation.

Somebody having bad SA doesn't justify them pulling a gun on a uniformed cop on a busy street in broad daylight.

Tic Tac wrote:Somebody having zero SA doesn't justify them pulling a gun on a uniformed cop on a busy street in broad daylight.

Whats justified and what actually happens in life are two completely different things.
Again, what if this person is deaf. Her SA as you call it is just fine. She's away from others, but all of a sudden someone is grabbing her, perhaps to rape or kidnap her (after all, why else would you grab a female jogger0. She reacts with an elbow and takes out the face of her attacker, who turns out to be a cop.

Who's wrong here?

I'm not saying its wrong or right, but until she has a chance to turn around she's being attacked and doesn't know who her attacker is.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

Tic Tac wrote:I'm still stunned at the idea of pulling a gun on a cop in uniform trying to give you a ticket.

Wow. Just...Wow!

I think you're actually referring to the idea of someone who is committing battery on you from behind and could be considered attempting to harm you or kidnap you.

Assuming you can turn around and its a police officer is one thing, but a reactive person like we talk people should be will have already reacted to escape the situation.

Battery? Not in Texas

gigag04 wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

Tic Tac wrote:I'm still stunned at the idea of pulling a gun on a cop in uniform trying to give you a ticket.

Wow. Just...Wow!

I think you're actually referring to the idea of someone who is committing battery on you from behind and could be considered attempting to harm you or kidnap you.

Assuming you can turn around and its a police officer is one thing, but a reactive person like we talk people should be will have already reacted to escape the situation.

Battery? Not in Texas

Assault. I forget Texas doesn't separate them out.

you guys seem to want a teenage girl to react to being grabbed from behind like a 50 year old man! You want her to have the Situational Awareness that has taken you a lifetime to develop. she was a College Student!!!! A Teenager!!!! A Kid! she could be anywhere from 18 to 22? possibly older, but statistically not. She wasn't a middle-aged man, she wasn't going to react like one, like I said earlier, the cop knew where he was setting up, he should have been prepared.

SewTexas wrote:you guys seem to want a teenage girl to react to being grabbed from behind like a 50 year old man! You want her to have the Situational Awareness that has taken you a lifetime to develop. she was a College Student!!!! A Teenager!!!! A Kid! she could be anywhere from 18 to 22? possibly older, but statistically not. She wasn't a middle-aged man, she wasn't going to react like one, like I said earlier, the cop knew where he was setting up, he should have been prepared.

Well hopefull she won't react like a 50 year old man. My startle response is high. Pardon the pun but I'd scream like a little girl and jump about 12 feet in the air.

Even as a woman myself, I'm having trouble seeing any way to justify her behavior beyond the initial startled response. How can she possibly be that traumatized by having someone grab her arm in broad daylight with plenty of witnesses around? Someone could have tried to stop her because she dropped her keys or ID. Someone could have seen a hazard in her path and been trying to warn her. Someone she knew might have wanted to get her attention. There are lots of legitimate reasons someone might grab the arm of a jogger. Is it necessarily the best approach to take? No, I don't think so. Is it a crime? Not in and of itself. If you are going to be traumatized for life and have an eternal hatred of law enforcement because a police officer grabbed your arm after you broke the law and failed to respond when ordered to stop, your life is going to be a MESS. My goodness, if that's what you consider a traumatic experience your life has been blessedly easy. If they had tased her or tackled her or otherwise used actual force, it would be a completely different story. But thy didn't.

She violated the law. Yeah, it's a minor one we don't see enforced a lot, but when you have a pedestrian-heavy area and those pedestrians are blatantly ignoring traffic signals, it gets to the point of being a danger. In Austin, there are auto-pedestrian issues and they are frequently fatal. If you break the law, you need to get over it when you get stopped and held accountable for it. Heck, maybe she heard the police officer and thought that if she just kept running and pretend not to hear, they'd let her go. There's no proof of that and never will be, but I think it's as likely as the idea that she was so traumatized that she couldn't help screaming and cussing and carrying on like a child.

I watched the video and read the article. The article said he edited the part out where she sat down on her own. I'd say that's trying to sway the opinion against the officers. He's not being honest, don't edit, play it as it is.

There is a high amount of deaf people in Austin, that's where TSD - Texas School for the Deaf is. Deaf or not, anyone would be startled when grabbed from behind. I used to startle the heck out of my mom. She'd calm once she saw it was me. But rational people who aren't aware they're being video taped, calm down when it's the police. In my opinion she was putting on a show for the camera. She jaywalked, not a huge crime comparatively speaking, but for safety reasons, it could save her life. She's got earbuds in and may not hear the city bus coming.

We live in a society of rules. Deal with jogging in the city and follow the rules or go to a proper track to jog. Simple.

CHLLady wrote:I watched the video and read the article. The article said he edited the part out where she sat down on her own. I'd say that's trying to sway the opinion against the officers. He's not being honest, don't edit, play it as it is.

There is a high amount of deaf people in Austin, that's where TSD - Texas School for the Deaf is. Deaf or not, anyone would be startled when grabbed from behind. I used to startle the heck out of my mom. She'd calm once she saw it was me. But rational people who aren't aware they're being video taped, calm down when it's the police. In my opinion she was putting on a show for the camera. She jaywalked, not a huge crime comparatively speaking, but for safety reasons, it could save her life. She's got earbuds in and may not hear the city bus coming.

We live in a society of rules. Deal with jogging in the city and follow the rules or go to a proper track to jog. Simple.

Fair points