Page 6 of 11
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:30 pm
by ShootDontTalk
[rant on]
This issue is like the Energizer Bunny - it keeps going and going.
A couple of points. First, regardless of differences of opinion about Constitutional issues, is open carry of a long gun in Texas legal or illegal? I'll leave it to the lawyers to argue the ifs, wheres, and whens.
If it is legal and we object because some people frighten the horses, then in my opinion we should get busy and change the laws to make open carry of a long gun illegal in Texas. I don't think anything short of jail will persuade the OC folks who insist on doing it to change their minds. Can anyone think of anything else that would persuade them? One thing is for sure. All the posts here are doing nothing to change their actions. (Mind you I'm not really suggesting this, but just sayin...)
If it is legal, then we are going to have an impossible task appealing to folks who are within the law to stop doing it. It is virtually impossible in this world we live in to appeal to people to stop doing something that Is illegal, or even harmful, just because it is. It seems you cannot rely on good judgement or consideration for others or issues. Some people are just going to do it. Take drunken driving for instance.
I sure wish as much time, effort, and rhetoric were being put into a solution as it is into the endless threads.
[/rant off]
Flame away if it makes you feel better.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:39 pm
by Keith B
ShootDontTalk wrote:[rant on]
This issue is like the Energizer Bunny - it keeps going and going.
A couple of points. First, regardless of differences of opinion about Constitutional issues, is open carry of a long gun in Texas legal or illegal? I'll leave it to the lawyers to argue the ifs, wheres, and whens.
If it is legal and we object because some people frighten the horses, then in my opinion we should get busy and change the laws to make open carry of a long gun illegal in Texas. I don't think anything short of jail will persuade the OC folks who insist on doing it to change their minds. Can anyone think of anything else that would persuade them? One thing is for sure. All the posts here are doing nothing to change their actions. (Mind you I'm not really suggesting this, but just sayin...)
If it is legal, then we are going to have an impossible task appealing to folks who are within the law to stop doing it. It is virtually impossible in this world we live in to appeal to people to stop doing something that Is illegal, or even harmful, just because it is. It seems you cannot rely on good judgement or consideration for others or issues. Some people are just going to do it. Take drunken driving for instance.
I sure wish as much time, effort, and rhetoric were being put into a solution as it is into the endless threads.
[/rant off]
Flame away if it makes you feel better.
Here's the issue. It's legal today, but if they keep parading around and stirring up trouble, it is not only going to not help passing open carry of handguns, it may well cause people to introduce legislation banning the open carry of long arms as well.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:56 pm
by snorri
G.A. Heath wrote:Burning GLBT folks in effigy may be your first amendment right, but it will not win you any support to defeat a marriage law.
I agree but if we're drawing parallels, the OC demonstrations are more like Gay Pride parades and other events. Some people are offended but it's hard to deny they raise awareness. Maybe gay marriage would have come sooner if the leathermen etc. wore suits or golf shirts during the parades and protests, but I think enforcing a dress code (beyond street legal) for Gay Pride parades would have hurt their cause by driving a wedge.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:49 pm
by asbandr
This is an entirely different issue. I doubt people fear that a homosexual person will use their homosexuality against others to cause bodily injury. Even anyone who is adamantly against that.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:30 pm
by Beiruty
Keith B wrote:ShootDontTalk wrote:[rant on]
This issue is like the Energizer Bunny - it keeps going and going.
A couple of points. First, regardless of differences of opinion about Constitutional issues, is open carry of a long gun in Texas legal or illegal? I'll leave it to the lawyers to argue the ifs, wheres, and whens.
If it is legal and we object because some people frighten the horses, then in my opinion we should get busy and change the laws to make open carry of a long gun illegal in Texas. I don't think anything short of jail will persuade the OC folks who insist on doing it to change their minds. Can anyone think of anything else that would persuade them? One thing is for sure. All the posts here are doing nothing to change their actions. (Mind you I'm not really suggesting this, but just sayin...)
If it is legal, then we are going to have an impossible task appealing to folks who are within the law to stop doing it. It is virtually impossible in this world we live in to appeal to people to stop doing something that Is illegal, or even harmful, just because it is. It seems you cannot rely on good judgement or consideration for others or issues. Some people are just going to do it. Take drunken driving for instance.
I sure wish as much time, effort, and rhetoric were being put into a solution as it is into the endless threads.
[/rant off]
Flame away if it makes you feel better.
Here's the issue. It's legal today, but if they keep parading around and stirring up trouble, it is not only going to not help passing open carry of handguns, it may well cause people to introduce legislation banning the open carry of long arms as well.
We are in red state, and we have majority in both chambers and we have the Governor too? Who would pass a pro gun-control bill and has a chance to pass it? We are the majority pro-gun in Texas. We need to stand up and fight for our rights. It is enough to be scared like a 1st grade student on his first day at school.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:38 pm
by chamberc
Beiruty wrote:Keith B wrote:ShootDontTalk wrote:[rant on]
This issue is like the Energizer Bunny - it keeps going and going.
A couple of points. First, regardless of differences of opinion about Constitutional issues, is open carry of a long gun in Texas legal or illegal? I'll leave it to the lawyers to argue the ifs, wheres, and whens.
If it is legal and we object because some people frighten the horses, then in my opinion we should get busy and change the laws to make open carry of a long gun illegal in Texas. I don't think anything short of jail will persuade the OC folks who insist on doing it to change their minds. Can anyone think of anything else that would persuade them? One thing is for sure. All the posts here are doing nothing to change their actions. (Mind you I'm not really suggesting this, but just sayin...)
If it is legal, then we are going to have an impossible task appealing to folks who are within the law to stop doing it. It is virtually impossible in this world we live in to appeal to people to stop doing something that Is illegal, or even harmful, just because it is. It seems you cannot rely on good judgement or consideration for others or issues. Some people are just going to do it. Take drunken driving for instance.
I sure wish as much time, effort, and rhetoric were being put into a solution as it is into the endless threads.
[/rant off]
Flame away if it makes you feel better. :boxing
Here's the issue. It's legal today, but if they keep parading around and stirring up trouble, it is not only going to not help passing open carry of handguns, it may well cause people to introduce legislation banning the open carry of long arms as well.
We are in red state, and we have majority in both chambers and we have the Governor too? Who would pass a pro gun-control bill and has a chance to pass it? We are the majority pro-gun in Texas. We need to stand up and fight for our rights. It is enough to be scared like a 1st grade student on his first day at school.
Demographics will forever change that no later than 2020.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:51 pm
by Beiruty
chamberc wrote:Beiruty wrote:Keith B wrote:ShootDontTalk wrote:[rant on]
This issue is like the Energizer Bunny - it keeps going and going.
A couple of points. First, regardless of differences of opinion about Constitutional issues, is open carry of a long gun in Texas legal or illegal? I'll leave it to the lawyers to argue the ifs, wheres, and whens.
If it is legal and we object because some people frighten the horses, then in my opinion we should get busy and change the laws to make open carry of a long gun illegal in Texas. I don't think anything short of jail will persuade the OC folks who insist on doing it to change their minds. Can anyone think of anything else that would persuade them? One thing is for sure. All the posts here are doing nothing to change their actions. (Mind you I'm not really suggesting this, but just sayin...)
If it is legal, then we are going to have an impossible task appealing to folks who are within the law to stop doing it. It is virtually impossible in this world we live in to appeal to people to stop doing something that Is illegal, or even harmful, just because it is. It seems you cannot rely on good judgement or consideration for others or issues. Some people are just going to do it. Take drunken driving for instance.
I sure wish as much time, effort, and rhetoric were being put into a solution as it is into the endless threads.
[/rant off]
Flame away if it makes you feel better.
Here's the issue. It's legal today, but if they keep parading around and stirring up trouble, it is not only going to not help passing open carry of handguns, it may well cause people to introduce legislation banning the open carry of long arms as well.
We are in red state, and we have majority in both chambers and we have the Governor too? Who would pass a pro gun-control bill and has a chance to pass it? We are the majority pro-gun in Texas. We need to stand up and fight for our rights. It is enough to be scared like a 1st grade student on his first day at school.
Demographics will forever change that no later than 2020.
Then we do it now, or it will never happens. BTW, the conservative movement in Texas should follow the demographics change too. Otherwise, we are conceding defeat as of now.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 5:46 am
by jmra
Beiruty wrote:chamberc wrote:Beiruty wrote:Keith B wrote:ShootDontTalk wrote:[rant on]
This issue is like the Energizer Bunny - it keeps going and going.
A couple of points. First, regardless of differences of opinion about Constitutional issues, is open carry of a long gun in Texas legal or illegal? I'll leave it to the lawyers to argue the ifs, wheres, and whens.
If it is legal and we object because some people frighten the horses, then in my opinion we should get busy and change the laws to make open carry of a long gun illegal in Texas. I don't think anything short of jail will persuade the OC folks who insist on doing it to change their minds. Can anyone think of anything else that would persuade them? One thing is for sure. All the posts here are doing nothing to change their actions. (Mind you I'm not really suggesting this, but just sayin...)
If it is legal, then we are going to have an impossible task appealing to folks who are within the law to stop doing it. It is virtually impossible in this world we live in to appeal to people to stop doing something that Is illegal, or even harmful, just because it is. It seems you cannot rely on good judgement or consideration for others or issues. Some people are just going to do it. Take drunken driving for instance.
I sure wish as much time, effort, and rhetoric were being put into a solution as it is into the endless threads.
[/rant off]
Flame away if it makes you feel better.
Here's the issue. It's legal today, but if they keep parading around and stirring up trouble, it is not only going to not help passing open carry of handguns, it may well cause people to introduce legislation banning the open carry of long arms as well.
We are in red state, and we have majority in both chambers and we have the Governor too? Who would pass a pro gun-control bill and has a chance to pass it? We are the majority pro-gun in Texas. We need to stand up and fight for our rights. It is enough to be scared like a 1st grade student on his first day at school.
Demographics will forever change that no later than 2020.
Then we do it now, or it will never happens. BTW, the conservative movement in Texas should follow the demographics change too. Otherwise, we are conceding defeat as of now.
It could have been done already had the OC crowd played their cards correctly several years ago. But no, they simply refuse to learn from past mistakes and continue to shoot both themselves and us in the foot. If OC fails to pass in 2015 the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the "in your face" OC crowd.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 7:41 pm
by Keith B
And now they have ticked off Chipotle
http://on.nbcdfw.com/vy0Gwsc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Un-beee-leavable
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 8:08 pm
by G.A. Heath
OC activists need to listen up and change their tactics. MDA has adapted to OCT's and CATI's tactics and are now effectively curb stomping them in PR efforts. Now we can say that any business who has employees interact with Open Carriers will be targeted by anti gun rights efforts and will face a PR nightmare until they make declaration against OC and even gun rights in general.
OCT and CATI are right when they say OCing a long gun in protest is their right. They are wrong when they say it is their Second Amendment right to do so, it is their FIRST Amendment right to march/rally/protest with anything, including the long guns. I would suggest that OCT, CATI, and any other parties interested in doing protests in support of OC develop new tactics aimed at raising public awareness and showing support for businesses without putting them in a PR nightmare situation.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 8:18 pm
by Dori
Beiruty wrote:BuckFlicks wrote:The problem is that the OCT people are breaking the law. Despite their claims to the contrary, their open carry demonstrations are specifically conducted in a manner calculated to cause alarm, which makes their open carry demonstrations a violation of the law. Their entire point is to get the populace railed up and make the news when those frightened citizens call the police and the media. It absolutely is hurting the cause more than helping.
So can you describe when the long firearms are carried NOT in a manner calculated to cause alarm?
Some people think only the police and military should carry guns.
Some people think only the police and military should carry guns openly.
Beiruty wrote:It seems you are declaring OC of long firearms are not legal in Texas, which is simply not true.
Not yet but MDA and their kin are working on it.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 9:31 pm
by chamberc
Dori wrote:Beiruty wrote:BuckFlicks wrote:The problem is that the OCT people are breaking the law. Despite their claims to the contrary, their open carry demonstrations are specifically conducted in a manner calculated to cause alarm, which makes their open carry demonstrations a violation of the law. Their entire point is to get the populace railed up and make the news when those frightened citizens call the police and the media. It absolutely is hurting the cause more than helping.
So can you describe when the long firearms are carried NOT in a manner calculated to cause alarm?
Some people think only the police and military should carry guns.
Some people think only the police and military should carry guns openly.
Beiruty wrote:It seems you are declaring OC of long firearms are not legal in Texas, which is simply not true.
Not yet but MDA and their kin are working on it.
You can definitely bet the most likely outcome here is outlawing long guns from OC, NOT allowing OC of handguns.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 9:34 pm
by jmra
chamberc wrote:Dori wrote:Beiruty wrote:BuckFlicks wrote:The problem is that the OCT people are breaking the law. Despite their claims to the contrary, their open carry demonstrations are specifically conducted in a manner calculated to cause alarm, which makes their open carry demonstrations a violation of the law. Their entire point is to get the populace railed up and make the news when those frightened citizens call the police and the media. It absolutely is hurting the cause more than helping.
So can you describe when the long firearms are carried NOT in a manner calculated to cause alarm?
Some people think only the police and military should carry guns.
Some people think only the police and military should carry guns openly.
Beiruty wrote:It seems you are declaring OC of long firearms are not legal in Texas, which is simply not true.
Not yet but MDA and their kin are working on it.
You can definitely bet the most likely outcome here is outlawing long guns from OC, NOT allowing OC of handguns.
Of course when that happens OCT will be pointing fingers at everyone but themselves.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:12 pm
by spongeworthy
Keith B wrote:And now they have ticked of Chipotle
http://on.nbcdfw.com/vy0Gwsc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Un-beee-leavable
I'm quite conflicted over this one, normally I'd just go elsewhere but Chipotle is my go-to spot for eating out on the rare occasion I do.
Re: Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:36 pm
by philip964
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStor ... s-23786860" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Chipotle bans guns in its restaurants after open carry Texas event scared customers.
So did that work?