TexasCHLforum.com

C-dub wrote:

flintknapper wrote: The police should have NO part in asking/demanding the actor leave, that is not their job. That is the job of the establishment. ONLY if the actor refuses to leave....has a trespass been committed, thus opening the situation for the need of law enforcement.

IF establishments learn they can post small non-compliant signs and then just a call the police to handle the rest, then you can bet they will do so.

Flintknapper has nailed my thoughts on this matter with these two gems.

I didn't believe it until both Keith and Charles stated it. I don't know how or when or understand why law enforcement has the authority to speak for a business about their policies unless they were hired employees of that business.

And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

But I doubt that most police will show up for such calls if no violation has occurred.....and absent a sign which gives effective notice, there has been no trespassing violation for police to enforce.

Of course, if you have a badge, sash, or tiara, you should be good to go........

C-dub wrote: {snip}
And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

Especially for open carry. After all, what business wants to put up those big ol ugly signs when a cute little unobtrusive gunbuster sign will ultimately pretty much accomplish the same thing?

thatguyoverthere wrote:

C-dub wrote: {snip}
And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

Especially for open carry. After all, what business wants to put up those big ol ugly signs when a cute little unobtrusive gunbuster sign will ultimately pretty much accomplish the same thing?

Because as soon as they realize that they have to give effective notice by calling the police EACH. AND. EVERY. TIME someone OCs into their business, they'll soon realize that it will waste less of their time to simply post the sign.......and we'll then be able to make an informed decision about whether or not to support their business.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

C-dub wrote:

flintknapper wrote: The police should have NO part in asking/demanding the actor leave, that is not their job. That is the job of the establishment. ONLY if the actor refuses to leave....has a trespass been committed, thus opening the situation for the need of law enforcement.

IF establishments learn they can post small non-compliant signs and then just a call the police to handle the rest, then you can bet they will do so.

Flintknapper has nailed my thoughts on this matter with these two gems.

I didn't believe it until both Keith and Charles stated it. I don't know how or when or understand why law enforcement has the authority to speak for a business about their policies unless they were hired employees of that business.

And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

But I doubt that most police will show up for such calls if no violation has occurred.....and absent a sign which gives effective notice, there has been no trespassing violation for police to enforce.

Of course, if you have a badge, sash, or tiara, you should be good to go........

The police had no way of knowing whether an actual violation had occurred in this instance or not. They figured it out, though, since they did not arrest the OP this time.

The business manager may or may not really know that his signs did not meet the letter of the law, but they probably do now since they OP wasn't arrested and the officers probably told him they couldn't arrest him because of that.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

thatguyoverthere wrote:

C-dub wrote: {snip}
And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

Especially for open carry. After all, what business wants to put up those big ol ugly signs when a cute little unobtrusive gunbuster sign will ultimately pretty much accomplish the same thing?

Because as soon as they realize that they have to give effective notice by calling the police EACH. AND. EVERY. TIME someone OCs into their business, they'll soon realize that it will waste less of their time to simply post the sign.......and we'll then be able to make an informed decision about whether or not to support their business.

Looks like I might be getting a little tired. I can't tell if you're saying that they'll get tired of having to call the police every time someone walks in OCing, so they will put up a compliant sign to avoid having to call the police or not. Won't they still have to call the police even if they have a compliant sign and someone walks in OCing? Or am I confusing myself?

BTW, I forgot to ask in the other post. You know me. Which would look better on me, the sash, badge, or tiara?

mojo84 wrote:There are some inconsistencies in this story that make me wonder if this actually happened. The OP stated he went into the restaurant, a cafeteria, and 20 minutes later the cops showed up. He then said said the cops showed up before he had a chance to order. Then he said they must not have cooked his food since the manager called the police.

Too many inconsistencies here for me to believe this event actually happened. I think I took the bait and got reeled up to the boat and threw the hook as the net approached me.

Further to my previous post regarding inconsistencies within this thread by the OP, I've looked back at his prior postings which demonstrate he is adamantly against open carry.

I believe he has an anti-OC agenda and he is playing us all like cheap fiddles. I am even more convinced the event in this thread did not happen. I encourage you all to review his prior comments and consider how he can't keep his story straight, even in this one thread.

We are making a mountain out of a molehill that did not exist.

C-dub wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

thatguyoverthere wrote:

C-dub wrote: {snip}
And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

Especially for open carry. After all, what business wants to put up those big ol ugly signs when a cute little unobtrusive gunbuster sign will ultimately pretty much accomplish the same thing?

Because as soon as they realize that they have to give effective notice by calling the police EACH. AND. EVERY. TIME someone OCs into their business, they'll soon realize that it will waste less of their time to simply post the sign.......and we'll then be able to make an informed decision about whether or not to support their business.

Looks like I might be getting a little tired. I can't tell if you're saying that they'll get tired of having to call the police every time someone walks in OCing, so they will put up a compliant sign to avoid having to call the police or not. Won't they still have to call the police even if they have a compliant sign and someone walks in OCing? Or am I confusing myself?

BTW, I forgot to ask in the other post. You know me. Which would look better on me, the sash, badge, or tiara?

Definitely the tiara.

You got the first part right. They'd get tired of calling the police every time if they were using the police to do their dirty work instead of posting a sign. Presumably, once they post a compliant sign, they would almost never have to call the
Police because the sign would deter law-abiding OCers from entering.

C-dub wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

C-dub wrote:

flintknapper wrote: The police should have NO part in asking/demanding the actor leave, that is not their job. That is the job of the establishment. ONLY if the actor refuses to leave....has a trespass been committed, thus opening the situation for the need of law enforcement.

IF establishments learn they can post small non-compliant signs and then just a call the police to handle the rest, then you can bet they will do so.

Flintknapper has nailed my thoughts on this matter with these two gems.

I didn't believe it until both Keith and Charles stated it. I don't know how or when or understand why law enforcement has the authority to speak for a business about their policies unless they were hired employees of that business.

And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

But I doubt that most police will show up for such calls if no violation has occurred.....and absent a sign which gives effective notice, there has been no trespassing violation for police to enforce.

Of course, if you have a badge, sash, or tiara, you should be good to go........

The police had no way of knowing whether an actual violation had occurred in this instance or not. They figured it out, though, since they did not arrest the OP this time.

The business manager may or may not really know that his signs did not meet the letter of the law, but they probably do now since they OP wasn't arrested and the officers probably told him they couldn't arrest him because of that.

At this point in the encounter with the LEO, the OP had not technically committed an infraction of the law IF the sign was non-compliant. For argument sake, IF the sign had been legal, the OP at the point of LEO contact would only be guilty of a class C. Would the LEO's really arrest him for that and take him to jail. I guess they could but would they in reality? The OP had to of known he was going against the wishes of the property owner and was going to get a verbal request. I guess he was not really all that hungry.

I did several errands today and found no change to any signs and I OC'd with no so much as even a stare.

One gas station I went into the girl said guns made her nervous but not me(because I go in there all the time). She didn't like being there by herself with people carrying guns.

That was the only comment from 5 stops.
The regal cinema has made it official and posted 06 and 07 signs but that's the only place in Longview I have found.

Tex

The Annoyed Man wrote:

C-dub wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

thatguyoverthere wrote:

C-dub wrote: {snip}
And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

Especially for open carry. After all, what business wants to put up those big ol ugly signs when a cute little unobtrusive gunbuster sign will ultimately pretty much accomplish the same thing?

Because as soon as they realize that they have to give effective notice by calling the police EACH. AND. EVERY. TIME someone OCs into their business, they'll soon realize that it will waste less of their time to simply post the sign.......and we'll then be able to make an informed decision about whether or not to support their business.

Looks like I might be getting a little tired. I can't tell if you're saying that they'll get tired of having to call the police every time someone walks in OCing, so they will put up a compliant sign to avoid having to call the police or not. Won't they still have to call the police even if they have a compliant sign and someone walks in OCing? Or am I confusing myself?

BTW, I forgot to ask in the other post. You know me. Which would look better on me, the sash, badge, or tiara?

Definitely the tiara.

You got the first part right. They'd get tired of calling the police every time if they were using the police to do their dirty work instead of posting a sign. Presumably, once they post a compliant sign, they would almost never have to call the
Police because the sign would deter law-abiding OCers from entering.

Okay, now I'm following ya!

Yikes! This can't end well.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

PSTL*PAKR wrote:

mayor wrote:looks like an 8.5x11. I'd have told them i didn't notice something so small, apologized and left.

They gave me no warning when I went in. Cops got there beforwe I was able to order...

You have been verbally warned now, so when you enter carrying openly again, you will have committed a Class A Misdemeanor. Something tells me Luby's, the police and the DA will prosecute to the full extent of the law. You will face one year in jail, a $4,000 fine and loss of your LTC for seven years.

Chas.

Is the law written to support that if OP does indeed open carry into the establishment, it is a now a Class A?? It would appear to me that a business would have to give verbal notice everytime before it becomes a Class A, hence the "on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property" they were given oral notice. It didn't read to me "before or after entering the property, if oral communication was ever given..." Class A would only apply on each particular and individual event, after entering the property, receiving oral communication, and failing to depart.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.

As someone who came to this Country years ago to live in the greatest Nation on the face of the Earth, to immerse myself into the freedoms that were so richly bestowed upon us as citizens of this great Land, I must say that I am saddened by the apathy towards promulgation of the erosion of those very freedoms that I hold near and dear to my heart.
I have seen a world 7000 miles away where slowly, inch by inch, people were desensitized and brow beaten to a point of utter complacency that gradually over time matriculated into resentment, anger, hostility, unrest and pure hell for everyone, in the end.
My take from this post is multi faceted. First and foremost, I will not do business with establishments who don't respect my rights as an American Citizen. Their business is their business, my business is mine.
Second, I have a strong predilection to stand with folks who fall into the traps that an enemy has laid out (improper sign / no prior verbal notice in this case), and at the very least, talk about a way to approach these circumstances in a fashion that is cohesive and unitary to a cause that we all share here. That means, no name calling, scalding etc. I take that the OP simply wanted to vent in a cafe full of his friends, and having been scalded by LEO's already for what happened, right wrong or indifferent, the last thing that I'd like to get in CHL forum is another beat down. Especially from folks whom I regard as my friends with common cause. I think that over time, these forum encounters will give rise to resentment and anger I mentioned few paragraphs above, and that will not be good for anyone. There will be no winners there guys.
Our Country is slowly crumbling and freedoms are being stolen from us daily. If we don't stand together and offer some good advice, as some here have done, we simply stand no chance.

OP, I detect your frustration. I would be mad as well. Going forward, forget that place. Don't go there, don't give them a dime of your hard earned money. At the month close, when they look at their P&L, let them scratch their heads wondering where their profits went.
I would say that the biggest power that we have is the power of the purse. Use it. Don't catch yourself striking a compromise with our enemies. And anyone who double sidedly seeks to strip either our rights, freedoms or both is, in my opinion, an enemy of our way of life.
Remember that erosion is gradual and that it comes in small, closely titrated dosages.
Hang in there. Ignorance will diminish if we collectively use the power of purse to make our voices heard.

And folks, please remember Tytlers Cycle.

Stay Safe.

Something to keep in mind- the police may have made a report and the OP's name is now on record. If another related situation ever occurred this report could be used to demonstrate prior reckless behavior pertaining to a gun. Never take anything for granted.

I suggest the OP edit his remarks.

mojo84 wrote:

mojo84 wrote:There are some inconsistencies in this story that make me wonder if this actually happened. The OP stated he went into the restaurant, a cafeteria, and 20 minutes later the cops showed up. He then said said the cops showed up before he had a chance to order. Then he said they must not have cooked his food since the manager called the police.

Too many inconsistencies here for me to believe this event actually happened. I think I took the bait and got reeled up to the boat and threw the hook as the net approached me.

Further to my previous post regarding inconsistencies within this thread by the OP, I've looked back at his prior postings which demonstrate he is adamantly against open carry.

I believe he has an anti-OC agenda and he is playing us all like cheap fiddles. I am even more convinced the event in this thread did not happen. I encourage you all to review his prior comments and consider how he can't keep his story straight, even in this one thread.

We are making a mountain out of a molehill that did not exist.

I'm with Mojo on this one, I believe we have ourselves a troll!