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Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 10:28 pm
by carlson1
The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 9:07 pm
I’m happy that AG Paxton has filed the suit, but unless the defendants are
forced to pay the accruing fines, I’d guess that the city of Dallas, the State Fair of Texas, and Fairpark First will stonewall and get delays in court proceedings long enough for the fair to finish running before the court ever has a chance to slap the defendants down.
Then next year, Fairpark First will be reorganized and operating under a new name, and the same old song and dance will begin again.
You are probably right, but at least he did something. Folks said it was a publicity stunt so I am glad he has sued. I don’t think he will find in Dallas County a court to grant injunctive relief to prevent the City of Dallas or the State Fair of Texas from enforcing the unlawful ban on firearms. It is a lot like Harris County.
So they get to continually break the law without punitive damages for a few years. Wished it worked that way for us.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 8:51 am
by Paladin
Agree. It is good that AG Paxton did what he could. If the State Fair still ban us carrying there, it's time for the boycott. 5% of Texans have an LTC and we tend to be most business's best customers. Hit them where it hurts. Financially on the bottom line.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:59 am
by The Annoyed Man
carlson1 wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 10:28 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 9:07 pm
I’m happy that AG Paxton has filed the suit, but unless the defendants are
forced to pay the accruing fines, I’d guess that the city of Dallas, the State Fair of Texas, and Fairpark First will stonewall and get delays in court proceedings long enough for the fair to finish running before the court ever has a chance to slap the defendants down.
Then next year, Fairpark First will be reorganized and operating under a new name, and the same old song and dance will begin again.
You are probably right, but at least he did something. Folks said it was a publicity stunt so I am glad he has sued. I don’t think he will find in Dallas County a court to grant injunctive relief to prevent the City of Dallas or the State Fair of Texas from enforcing the unlawful ban on firearms. It is a lot like Harris County.
So they get to continually break the law without punitive damages for a few years. Wished it worked that way for us.
Perhaps the way forward is to lobby the legislature to specifically invalidate any anti-carry signage or policy for ANY organization that specifically organizes and operates the state fair—for profit and non profit alike. Make the law preemptive and specific so that
no fair operator can hide behind any reason to bar legal carry.
You’d think that the language of the current law is plain enough, but the fair operators seem to think that it doesn’t apply to them. Therefore, make an addition to the law that
specifically bars
any state fair operator from enforcing a no-carry zone.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:47 pm
by carlson1
The Annoyed Man wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:59 am
carlson1 wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 10:28 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 9:07 pm
I’m happy that AG Paxton has filed the suit, but unless the defendants are
forced to pay the accruing fines, I’d guess that the city of Dallas, the State Fair of Texas, and Fairpark First will stonewall and get delays in court proceedings long enough for the fair to finish running before the court ever has a chance to slap the defendants down.
Then next year, Fairpark First will be reorganized and operating under a new name, and the same old song and dance will begin again.
You are probably right, but at least he did something. Folks said it was a publicity stunt so I am glad he has sued. I don’t think he will find in Dallas County a court to grant injunctive relief to prevent the City of Dallas or the State Fair of Texas from enforcing the unlawful ban on firearms. It is a lot like Harris County.
So they get to continually break the law without punitive damages for a few years. Wished it worked that way for us.
Perhaps the way forward is to lobby the legislature to specifically invalidate any anti-carry signage or policy for ANY organization that specifically organizes and operates the state fair—for profit and non profit alike. Make the law preemptive and specific so that
no fair operator can hide behind any reason to bar legal carry.
You’d think that the language of the current law is plain enough, but the fair operators seem to think that it doesn’t apply to them. Therefore, make an addition to the law that
specifically bars
any state fair operator from enforcing a no-carry zone.
I like this ane I would stand behind it. Although I am very happy Paxtor has sued Dallas I have to wonder if it was for show. If there was some teeth to them violating the law it would make them think twice. Someone has already said and it is probably true it is a little late for us to see so results this year. However I have my fingers crossed.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 7:54 am
by Boxerrider
There is no reason to limit it to the state fair. As mentioned earlier, there are many activities that will ban carry for a one or two-day event.
It would be simple to include language that any entity leasing government property assumes all responsibilities and liabilities as the body of government.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 12:53 pm
by chamberc
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:00 pm
by Grayling813
Not surprised..expected this decision by a Dallas Judge. Democrat Dallas County District Court Judge Emily Tobolowsky.
Paxton shot his case in the foot with his 2016 opinion that found private entities could ban guns on government-leased property as long as the government “has no control over the decision to post such notice.”
No recourse except to not go to the fair and hope that the legislature will address this issue so it is clear.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:43 pm
by ScottDLS
Yawn.

The Legislature will get right on this next session.

Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:31 pm
by RoyGBiv
ScottDLS wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:43 pm
Yawn.

The Legislature will get right on this next session.
Hopefully.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 8:38 pm
by anygunanywhere
ScottDLS wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:43 pm
Yawn.

The Legislature will get right on this next session.
The GOP will save us.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 9:47 pm
by srothstein
Grayling813 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:00 pm
Not surprised..expected this decision by a Dallas Judge. Democrat Dallas County District Court Judge Emily Tobolowsky.
Paxton shot his case in the foot with his 2016 opinion that found private entities could ban guns on government-leased property as long as the government “has no control over the decision to post such notice.”
No recourse except to not go to the fair and hope that the legislature will address this issue so it is clear.
I think he blew the case by not standing by that decision. It was correct in that it applied the law as written to say they could legally post the property but that the courts would find the ban could not be enforced on government land.
His whole argument this time was that the State Fair was not an independent agency, but was acting as an agent for the city and thus had to obey the city rules.
Now I need to read the actual decision from the judge. Was the ban upheld as legal and enforceable, or was the posting upheld as legal with no mention of whether it could be enforced? The latter might still be correct, but the former would be wrong as a matter of law, IMO. I would almost be willing to bet the judge only ruled on if the posting was allowed or not.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:02 am
by Rex B
Grayling813 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:00 pm
Paxton shot his case in the foot with his 2016 opinion that found private entities could ban guns on government-leased property as long as the government “has no control over the decision to post such notice.”
The biggest difference in the Fair and other orgs like the FTW Zoo is the use of metal detectors.
What if someone were to get a large group of LTCs to show up on opening day and attempt armed entry? They would be stopped at the metal detectors, and would leave peacefully (with video of each instance). Might be standing for a class action suit. Might even arrange some press coverage.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:26 am
by chasfm11
For me, the reductio ad absurdum aspect of this is the degree to which the organization running the State Farm must adhere to ANY of the the rules of the City of Dallas. If they are truly an independent situation, then none of the Dallas specific laws and rules must be adhered to. But I'm wiling to bet that many of Dallas's regulated areas are adhered to and even inspected by Dallas employed people with consequences to the State Fair organization if compliance is not complete and correct. As soon as the organization is under the control of the Dallas government for anything, it is under that control for everything. I would start that argument with the Dallas Police. Dallas PD is there enforcing laws as set by the City of Dallas. I believe food vendors are the same and probably the rides are controlled as well. It might even go as far as livestock. Otherwise, the State Fair organization is half-pregnant.
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:16 pm
by rtschl
Attorney General Ken Paxton Files Appeal to Prevent Unlawful State Fair of Texas Firearms Ban From Taking Effect:
https://x.com/TXAG/status/1838308472263447021
Re: Texas State Fair Carry Rules
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:27 pm
by carlson1
I know either way it will be repealed again so there is probably a very slim chance anything changes this year. The only way I see this making a difference is if the state Fair looses money. I am not buying the whole “non-profit” status the Fair claims to begin with. They make a profit on just their parking.