TexasCHLforum.com

5thGenTexan wrote:You have the right just take the bus and you won't need insurance to exercise it.

I dont think theirs a Bus stop in my area.
Also the Bus is run by the City here. Socialized Travel!

Tell it to my grandpa, tell it to a blind person, tell it to a mentally retarded person, no it's not a right, it's a privilege granted by the state.

driver8 wrote:Tell it to my grandpa, tell it to a blind person, tell it to a mentally retarded person, no it's not a right, it's a privilege granted by the state.

So you are saying that the Government stepping in for the Public Good is okay, even if it removes Rights? I've posted Supreme Court cases that support my case, please post something that supports your claim that its a privilege

Are you saying that it is manditory for you to drive or even travel? Even if the court says it is a right, do you not have the right not to travel and thus not have to pay for car insurance?

driver8 wrote:Are you saying that it is manditory for you to drive or even travel? Even if the court says it is a right, do you not have the right not to travel and thus not have to pay for car insurance?

you answer my question first.

Haven't been able to find anything on the cases you have. Sounds to me like the right to travel is not the right to drive a car on public roads. You answer my question. Do you have the right not to travel?

driver8 wrote:Are you saying that it is manditory for you to drive or even travel? Even if the court says it is a right, do you not have the right not to travel and thus not have to pay for car insurance?

Do I think that Car Insurance is Unconstitutional? No. It falls withing "state rights" but to say I need a license to drive can be deemed unconstitutional. just like requiring a License to carry, or in some states to even own a gun.
If anything you shouldnt be opposed to the Healthcare bill because you have no problem with the Government stepping in and making people do things

marksiwel wrote:care to post the Tax Payers to Moochers Ratio in America?

When these non-filers are added to the non-payers, they add up to 57.5 million income-earning people who will be paying no income taxes.

Even 57.5 million is not the actual number of people because one tax return often represents several people. When all of the dependents of these income-producing people are counted, roughly 120 million Americans – 40 percent of the U.S. population – are outside of the federal income tax system.

marksiwel wrote:please post something that supports your claim that its a privilege

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not a very long document. You should read it some time. Nowhere in there does it give the government the right to FORCE us to buy anything.

driver8 wrote:Haven't been able to find anything on the cases you have. Sounds to me like the right to travel is not the right to drive a car on public roads. You answer my question. Do you have the right not to travel?

Your google-fu is weak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Guest" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapiro_v._Thompson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.andrewtobias.com/bkoldcolumns/980723.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do I have the Right NOT To Travel? Do you have the RIGHT NOT to own a gun? yes you can refuse to travel. You also can refuse to breath if you want to. But you cant legally kill yourself. The Law is a funny thing.

Driving a car on a public road and paying foe the insurance is a choice. Under Obamacare Paying for health insurance is not. Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

marksiwel wrote:You could make the same argument about Car Insurance.
Or that your lack of Health Insurance effects my Health Insurance.
But as for it being constitutional, you may have a valid point. I expect a Scotus Ruling on it down the pipe, now that is something I look forward to.

The difference between car insurance and this bill is car insurance is mandated by the State of Texas, which properly - according to the Constitution - has that power. The Federal government has no power to mandate I buy car insurance because that is not a power enumerated in the Constitution.

Need I remind you of the 9th and 10th Amendments?

Amendment 9 - Construction of Constitution. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The 9th Amendment states that simply because the Constitution does not enumerate a certain right which belongs to the people, that doesn't mean those rights don't exist.

The 10th Amendment states that any power not specifically enumerated to the Federal government is reserved to the States or to the people.

Since the power to mandate I purchase car insurance is not delegated to the Federal government in the Constitution, that power is reserved to the States, of which the State of Texas mandates I buy car insurance. I have no problem with this because, according to the 10th Amendment, that is where such power resides.

I have no problem with the State of Massachusetts mandating all its residents purchase health insurance or set up a state run program to do so. That power is properly within their right as a sovereign state. Same with the State of Hawaii with its public health care for all children under the age of 18 which, by the way, was discontinued after just over one year because it went broke.

If the State of Texas mandated I purchase health insurance, I'd have no problem with that. However, this is the Federal government making this mandate which is a violation of the powers enumerated to it in the Constitution. Therefore, this mandate is unconstitutional.

If you wish the Federal government to have the power to mandate everyone purchase car insurance, then let's pass a Constitutional Amendment which gives that power to the Federal government. If you want the Federal government to have the power to mandate everyone purchase health insurance, let's pass an Amendment to that effect. Without amending the Constitution, the Federal government does not have that power.

timdsmith72 wrote:

marksiwel wrote:please post something that supports your claim that its a privilege

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not a very long document. You should read it some time . Nowhere in there does it give the government the right to FORCE us to buy anything.

I have read it, how nice that you would assume I hadnt. Wanna hear some fun things? No where in that document does it say you have the right to travel, the number of supreme court justices, the right to VOTE (Go ahead, try and argue it, I'll win), that you have a right to Privacy, Theres nothing about Checks and Balances, Immigration, Capitalism, Congressional Districts, or the word God.
You should try reading it AGAIN , it doesnt say alot.

I guess we will have to wait for the Supreme Court ruling that says weather or not the Healthcare bill is Constitutional. My guess is they will use the commerce clause to say its okay.

I read the 3 links. Still don't see anything that requires anyone to travel or pay for car insurance

driver8 wrote:I read the 3 links. Still don't see anything that requires anyone to travel or pay for car insurance

You are correct in that you are not required to travel , and that Court rulings have said that saying that you HAVE to have insurance are legal under state guidelines. But you do have a Right to Travel (or not to). Agreed?


Back on Topic
Article I, Section 8, Clause 3
(The Congress shall have power) To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes;

So basically if the Supreme court knocks down the Healthcare Bill it was also have to let people grow Pot in their back yards if state law allows it. More on that later, I'm going to Trudys for a drink and some food.