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"As to the caliber's effectiveness, I'm not volunteering to step in front of one, but anybody who has worked in an ER long enough (as I have) will tell you that the .380 is not the most effective round. It just isn't. And although this horse has been flogged many times on this forum, and although no pistol caliber is guaranteed to be a 1 shot man-stopper, as caliber increases, the odds of that being the outcome do go up considerably. The simple truth is that caliber is not a guarantee, but all factors being taken into account, including the psychological processes involved in being shot, the bigger the bullet, the more likely the incapacitation. I pray that I never have to shoot somebody. I really don't want to have to do it. But if I have to do it, I want the person to stay shot and be hit hard enough that, if not physically incapacitated by being shot, they will be at least psychologically incapacitated. Based on what I know from 6 years of working in an ER, I just have greater confidence in more powerful calibers in that regard, and the .380 doesn't really inspire that kind of confidence in me"

I think TAM is really correct on this post,But I believe one of the key words is EMERGENCY ROOM.I believe anyone that has been shot is in dire need of medical attention.No matter what you carry,an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.Also a .380 is easier to hide than a M60.

With ammo improvements I think a .380 is much better than it was 15 or so years ago. I carry a P3AT when I can't carry anything else and feel okay with it. Better that than nothing. My problem really isn't with the new .380 ammo but with the guns that shoot the round. The bigger and heavier ones like the Bersa seem to be a better choice to me just because they can be aimed if needed and the weight makes them feel more like a gun than a toy. I love the P3AT for carry as a BUG but wielding it at the range is not easy and they are inaccurate beyond the 10 foot range they seem to be designed for. Point and shoot like a camera as it were. So, the new .380 ammo is much better and may even be sufficient but I am not convinced that the LCP or P3AT or similar guns would be a good daily carry. Great BUGs and "Only-Choice" guns but if I was limited to .380 the gun would be bigger and heaver with proper sites and better accuracy.

shootthesheet wrote:With ammo improvements I think a .380 is much better than it was 15 or so years ago.

I heard Tom Gresham say the same thing on his radio show a few weeks ago. He talked about tests on ballistic gels and said he was surprised at how little difference there is when using the right ammo. His point (in context) was that fact alone has caused him to take a re-look at handguns such as the LCP.

gigag04 wrote:Under ideal conditions I find the Kahr P380 EXTREMELY accurate for what it is. Unless something is wrong on the gun, I would diagnose the issue as something with the shooter. I broke it in and qualified with it to carry it on duty as a BUG and shot like 298/300, including shots out to 25 yards. Now this is relaxed, unstressed shooting.

Ditto - Quite frankly, I was shocked at the P380 accuracy; I can easily get 1-2" groups at 7 yds. with my sore eyes, but what blew me away was I let one of the range attendants at Red's put a mag through it, and 5 of his 6 shots was one ragged cloverleaf, with the 6th not far away. I don't know what else you can ask for. Certainly more than adequate for its design intent.

shootthesheet wrote:Great BUGs and "Only-Choice" guns but if I was limited to .380 the gun would be bigger and heaver with proper sites and better accuracy.

And if you're going to go with "bigger and heavier," why not also go with more powerful caliber?

I dont know about being underpowered but i think id be a little embaressed if i used it on a bg, since i usually carry a full size kimber. "I'm sorry to say this officer but this is the gun that was used"---- his response to me holding out the keltec p3at ---- thats cute its like a gun only smaller.

tauruspt145 wrote:I dont know about being underpowered but i think id be a little embaressed if i used it on a bg, since i usually carry a full size kimber. "I'm sorry to say this officer but this is the gun that was used"---- his response to me holding out the keltec p3at ---- thats cute its like a gun only smaller.

Well if you're talking to the officer after, I'd proffer the gun was big enough.

frazzled wrote:

tauruspt145 wrote:I dont know about being underpowered but i think id be a little embaressed if i used it on a bg, since i usually carry a full size kimber. "I'm sorry to say this officer but this is the gun that was used"---- his response to me holding out the keltec p3at ---- thats cute its like a gun only smaller.

Well if you're talking to the officer after, I'd proffer the gun was big enough.

After the correct and effective use of deadly force to stop an imminent threat to my life, the size of the gun I used would be the last of my worries.

7075-T7 wrote:

frazzled wrote:

tauruspt145 wrote:I dont know about being underpowered but i think id be a little embaressed if i used it on a bg, since i usually carry a full size kimber. "I'm sorry to say this officer but this is the gun that was used"---- his response to me holding out the keltec p3at ---- thats cute its like a gun only smaller.

Well if you're talking to the officer after, I'd proffer the gun was big enough.

After the correct and effective use of deadly force to stop an imminent threat to my life, the size of the gun I used would be the last of my worries.

not to mention it would be at least 24 hours before I did any talking to LE.

I agree with what everyone has said towards my comment, im just saying half the time i show someone the keltec they say Is that real? or some women have said, Thats cute! I am very confident in my accuracy with it and all it needs to do is function reliably when i need it. Also any gun is better than no gun.